Page 121 of 226
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:59 pm
by jmra
mamabearCali wrote:Florida law:
It is unlawful to sell, give, barter, lend or transfer a firearm or other weapon other than an ordinary pocketknife to a minor less than the age of 18 without his parent’s permission, or to any person of unsound mind.
So, if it was a pic of his hand and when the firearm was obtained he had the permission of his parent and he was not convicted of a crime barring him from possession of a firearm then he was within his rights to have it.
Note: given what I have seen of his parents to date, it would not surprise me one bit to learn that they had given him a gun.
ETA
VA law:
A person under 18 shall not possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm.1
This prohibition does not apply to a minor in his own home or on his property or on the property of another with prior permission.
So even in VA if he had his parents consent and was on private property he still would have been within his rights to possess the firearm.
I see this a bit different than you. His parents did not give a darn about him. They did not tend to his needs or even keep his whereabouts in the front of their minds. I don't think they would give him permission simple because I don't think it would occur to them to care about him enough to teach him about gun and keep him safe. I don't think it would occur to him to ask them for permission. Giving a person a gun generally means you care about them enough to see to their safety. So if he had the gun, I don't think he had permission simply because I think there was a total breakdown in parenting at all levels. I don't think he asked and I don't think they cared enough about him for it to occur to them to give him permission.
Could I be wrong.....sure.
Now the VA code is what it is......but if you are in a non country county in VA and you are popping off rounds in target practice (and you are under 18) your parents had better be around or you will go for a ride if the blue lights show up. Now off in the mountains no one is going to notice your shots anyway so go ahead. The VA code will come in at trial.....but in the heat of the moment the cops intuition will determine whether you get a ride downtown or not. It is common wisdom here to (in the suburbs) keep guns with underage people in use only under supervision or parents not too far off.
ETA Sadly I think had Mr. Martin gone home that night and lived to see the next day I think within a short period of time (months perhaps) he would have soon lost his firearm rights as he seemed to be into drugs and that will get you DQed in a New York minute. He was a very troubled young man.
We are all entitled to our opinions. But we also have to distinguish when we are stating opinion and when we are stating a fact.
I believe that we have determined and can agree that the statement "A 17 year old is not supposed to have firearms without adult supervison period" is factually inaccurate in FL, TX, and VA.
If it was your desire to state the above as an opinion perhaps it would have been better worded "I don't believe a parent should allow a 17 year old to have a firearm without adult supervision".
As to whether or not TM ever had a gun or if he did have a gun, had his parents permission to have it is something we will never know. To state ones belief one way or the other is purely speculation which we are all entitled to do. It does cause less confusion though if when we do speculate we are careful not to speak in factual terms.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:14 pm
by mamabearCali
jmra wrote:
We are all entitled to our opinions. But we also have to distinguish when we are stating opinion and when we are stating a fact.
I believe that we have determined and can agree that the statement "A 17 year old is not supposed to have firearms without adult supervison period" is factually inaccurate in FL, TX, and VA.
If it was your desire to state the above as an opinion perhaps it would have been better worded "I don't believe a parent should allow a 17 year old to have a firearm without adult supervision".
As to whether or not TM ever had a gun or if he did have a gun, had his parents permission to have it is something we will never know. To state ones belief one way or the other is purely speculation which we are all entitled to do. It does cause less confusion though if when we do speculate we are careful not to speak in factual terms.
You and I are speaking apples and oranges. I am speaking from what will keep you outside of a squad car. You are speaking the letter of the law. The letter of the law says consent or permission as you have pointed out. So in that limited capacity a person could hold a gun and be 17 and not by outside the letter of the law. However, I have been told all my life what was practical in the area I lived and what will avoid both the rap AND the ride.
So factually, where I have lived in VA if you want to avoid a ride in a squad car if you are under 18 and you are popping off rounds....better have mom and dad nearby. Now if you do in fact have your parents permission to target practice will you win out in court, most likely.....but you and your mom and dad will be out some $$ time, and unpleasant experiences.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:25 pm
by jmra
mamabearCali wrote:So factually...
Ok, I give up.
Have a nice evening.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:29 pm
by mamabearCali
jmra wrote:mamabearCali wrote:So factually...
Ok, I give up.
Have a nice evening.
Perhaps I should say in real life experience of real people living in places i really do live in instead.
You do get the points for knowing he letter of the law....sure....but the letter won't help a 16 year old crying in the back of the squad car.
Night night.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:36 pm
by jmra
mamabearCali wrote:jmra wrote:mamabearCali wrote:So factually...
Ok, I give up.
Have a nice evening.
Perhaps I should say in real life experience of real people living in places i really do live in instead.
You do get the points for knowing he letter of the law....sure....but the letter won't help a 16 year old crying in the back of the squad car.
Night night.
It's been a pleasure - I was wrong for questioning your debating skills. It was unkind. My apologies.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:22 am
by jmra
Back on topic.
Hopefully full disclosure is allowed if/when this thing goes to court. TM's temperament and any drug induced influence are key to the defenses argument that TM was the aggressor/attacker.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:50 pm
by jmra
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/26/justice/f ... index.html
Defense claims TMs text messages throughout the day with "witness 8" show that he was "hostile" on the day of the shooting.
Quotes from the link:
"The texts speak to Martin's demeanor and emotional state"
"may assist the jury in understanding why Trayvon Martin chose to hide then confront George Zimmerman rather than simply going home."
"texts were mostly with 'Witness 8', and the messages showed Martin and the friend were 'hostile and angry with each other at various points throughout the day'."
"Martin, 17, was talking on the phone with Witness 8 when he and Zimmerman met as Martin walked to the house of his father's fiancee after a trip to a nearby convenience store."
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:30 pm
by philip964
Well if you were a tin foil hat type, you would say the "fix" is in.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/justice/f ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Defense cannot show any information on TM's drug use, handling a gun, past fights, texts, pictures with gold teeth, information on why it took so long to arrest him, etc. They also do not get an extension to research the "expert" who will testify that TM's voice is heard saying "please don't hurt me" (or something similar) not Zimmerman.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:44 pm
by bulinm
I pray that justice is served.
It could be any of us in his shoes.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:46 pm
by philip964
Sarcasm on/ The judge has ruled that Zimmerman cannot take the stand in his own defense, as he might say something bad about TM. Sarcasm/off
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/ ... der-trial/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:50 pm
by G26ster
Where does it say that? I read, "“The decision to put George on the stand won’t come until the prosecution rests their case,” the source close to the case added."
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:01 pm
by RoyGBiv
^^^ I think you missed this bit...
philip964 wrote:Sarcasm on/
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:00 pm
by philip964
RoyGBiv wrote:^^^ I think you missed this bit...
philip964 wrote:Sarcasm on/
The wink smiley was too subtle, then a wise poster started the Sarcasm on/ off statement which I liked. Maybe bold from now on.
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:55 pm
by G26ster
RoyGBiv wrote:^^^ I think you missed this bit...
philip964 wrote:Sarcasm on/
When I read the post I went straight to the article, and when I found nothing, I forgot about the sarcasm. My bad
Re: 17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:45 am
by anygunanywhere
Lawyer: Zimmerman prosecutor withheld evidence
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/29/3 ... hheld.html
Shocking! Truly shocking, I say!
The court system today is not about justice, but persecution and conviction rate.
Anygunanywhere