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rotor wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:38 pm The interesting thing about this particular post is that I know we have 2 liberals that have some belief in the 2ndA. At least I am assuming they do and are not just hanging around here to stir the pot.

Oh well, if we can enlighten more liberals it might be worth the effort. Someday their support might be useful in helping 2A interests.

philbo wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 pm

mojo84 wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:50 pm That YouTube video is more proof of collusion than anything the dems and Mueller have come up with against Trump.

Except that trump only acted AFTER Mueller indicted 12 Russians in March. As far as N Korea... still waiting on something more than a photogenic handshake and a conclusory announcement that everything is resolved. At this time trump appears weak at best, certainly not "America First".

Who's been charged by Mueller in the Russia probe so far?
Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Richard Gates, George Papadopoulos, Alex van der Zwaan, Richard Pinedo, 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies, and just last week 12 Russian intelligence officers, all 12 are members of GRU, the Russian intelligence agency. But your right, there's no evidence of russian interference at all, or connection to the trump campaign....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... o-far.html

Obama and his cabal never acted.

There is no question the Russians did try to influence our elections. They've been doing that for decades. We also try to influence other countries elections and have been for decades. Why is this such an issue now?

You still ignoring Obama's collusion with Medvedev and the Russians while he was in office and running for reelection I see.

I have a Facebook friend who at least pretended to be some what of a Republican. He has many Republican friends and employers. But he was much of a Bush establishment type Republican, if he was really a Republican at all.

Anyway his dislike of Trump knows no bounds. To him Trump is the devil incarnate. Today, he is a big fan of John McCain, like all my Liberal friends are today.

dale blanker wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:20 pm

rotor wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:38 pm The interesting thing about this particular post is that I know we have 2 liberals that have some belief in the 2ndA. At least I am assuming they do and are not just hanging around here to stir the pot.

Oh well, if we can enlighten more liberals it might be worth the effort. Someday their support might be useful in helping 2A interests.

I mentioned no names. Most of my relatives probably would agree with you. Doesn't make them right, just family.

philbo wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 pmBut your right, there's no evidence of russian interference at all, or connection to the trump campaign....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... o-far.html

You contradict the article you posted when you say, "connection to the trump campaign"

(from the article you cited),

"...none of the charges are directly related to any misconduct by the president's campaign."


As for interference, I have no doubt that Russia did interfere. But they are not alone. We are guilty of the same according to these two articles in what I would hardly call news sources friendly to Trump.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us- ... story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... 27961d8f0e

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... mistake-of

Newt Gingrich worst mistake of his Presidency.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/socie ... ald-trump/

Charles and William refuse to meet with Trump.

One website posted photos of Prince Charles vacationing with a known Pedophile.

If people are really concerned about Russian collusion they would be focused on the connection between the Podestas, Clintos and Russians.

mojo84 wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:39 pm If people are really concerned about Russian collusion....

Sadly, most are actually not concerned with anything but hurting the POTUS and anyone who likes him, works with him or works for him.

Like him or not, he's the President and anyone who intentionally hurts him or the office is just hurting the country.

Maria Butina of Russian Right to Keep and Bear Arms organization arrested and charged with acting as an unregistered foreign agent, infiltrating NRA.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... sia-us-doj

G26ster wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:05 pm

philbo wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 pmBut your right, there's no evidence of russian interference at all, or connection to the trump campaign....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... o-far.html

You contradict the article you posted when you say, "connection to the trump campaign"

(from the article you cited),

"...none of the charges are directly related to any misconduct by the president's campaign."

You seem to forget that when this started in July of 2016, trump and crew were constantly stating that there were no connections between anyone in his campaign and the russians. This lie went on for almost a year, and when that lie became unsupportable after the first round of indictments and guilty pleas by flynn and others in 2017, trump and crew changed their tune to "no collusion". It seems that everyone is willing to believe that russia interfered with the campaign... except trump who licked putin's boots and publicly groveled in Helsinki, and still isn't willing to concede russian interference. Why? Because putin said they didn't interfere? Sure makes it seem like trump has something to hide.

And yes the us has interfered with other countries during the cold war and afterward. This was done purportedly in America's self interest. The groveling yesterday by trump did not help the US, but did put Russia First... maybe that's the new campaign slogan. Bottom line, apologizing for trumps weak performance is not in this country's self interest.

I'm still not sure what the issue is... having a "connection" to someone in russia or who does business with russia is a far cry from trying to fix an election. (which by the way did happen on dem primary)

Further- the indictments were not for collusion they were not for interfering in an election and appear to only be there to see if anyone can roll over and provide any possible link to Trump. And it was not the Trump team who changed the terminology to "collusion."

All the indictments against russians are [IMO] for show... they will never be extradited, be tried or even be in court so muller doesn't have to show any evidence that they were guilty of anything. But the mere indictment looks like he made progress which keeps muller's tax dollar vortex wide open. Sucking the money and life out of our already politically divided country.

Not sure why the well known and established connections between the clintons and russians are not a problem. Oh, right, because they were ALSO working with the FBI and DOJ.

No one disputes that russia tried to influence the election. But that doesn't mean Trump helped them.

"Not sure why the well known and established connections between the clintons and russians are not a problem. Oh, right, because they were ALSO working with the FBI and DOJ."

That's the painful truth that many aren't willing to accept.

flechero wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:28 am I'm still not sure what the issue is... having a "connection" to someone in russia or who does business with russia is a far cry from trying to fix an election. (which by the way did happen on dem primary)

Further- the indictments were not for collusion they were not for interfering in an election and appear to only be there to see if anyone can roll over and provide any possible link to Trump. And it was not the Trump team who changed the terminology to "collusion."

All the indictments against russians are [IMO] for show... they will never be extradited, be tried or even be in court so muller doesn't have to show any evidence that they were guilty of anything. But the mere indictment looks like he made progress which keeps muller's tax dollar vortex wide open. Sucking the money and life out of our already politically divided country.

Not sure why the well known and established connections between the clintons and russians are not a problem. Oh, right, because they were ALSO working with the FBI and DOJ.

No one disputes that russia tried to influence the election. But that doesn't mean Trump helped them.

This is pretty much where I'm at on this. I had the press conference on yesterday while doing chores around the house and wasn't paying much attention. I heard Trump go on about "there was no collusion" but didn't hear the context of the question. Two things immediately came to my mind - "man, he's really upset about this Mueller investigation, and rightly so" and "OK, but this is probably not the time or place". Anyway, shortly thereafter this "treason!" stuff starts popping up everywhere and Schumer is on ranting about it more hysterically than usual, which is saying a lot. Even people I normally trust were upset. So now I'm like "dang, what did I miss?".

Again, not having heard whatever Trump said in context, my thoughts while listening to Schumer was "oh, NOW you're upset when a president blames America first? Welcome to the last 50 years of YOUR PARTY, fellow. Apology tour, anyone???".

I don't know. Trump says cringeworthy stuff all the time but it usually turns out to be either a deflection or something that's at least semi-valid. Am I missing something?