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[quote="The Annoyed Man"]

1. The middle east is in flames.
2. China is not only threatening a bond attack on Japan, but they've moved naval assets into Japanese territorial waters and refuse to leave......and there exists an official Chinese map that shows those islands as belonging to Japan, so this is just a pretext for something else.....like the U.S. is busy and impotent, so we'll make trouble.
3. Syrian jets are bombing Lebanon.
4. Iran Revolutionary Guard troops are in both Syria and Lebanon (which Beiruty cannot blame on "The Jews").
5. Russia is making a play for sponsoring Syria.
6. An American ambassador is killed along with three others.
7. The white house press office is saying that the attack was not an attack on America.
8. The administration has an obnoxious film maker arrested in violation of his first amendment rights (while Michael Moore still roams free, not paying his fair share in taxes and scarfing up all the food.
9. The white house has nothing to say about Bill Maher's equally insulting movie which attacks muslims as well as christians.
10. Iraq is lost.
11. Afghanistan is about to be lost.
12. Iran has committed submarines to the gulf in preparation of blocking the straights of Hormuz.
13. Iran is now 6 months from being a nuclear armed nation.
14. Our embassy in LONDON, ENGLAND is set on fire by radical Islamist retards.
15. Israel is about to act unilaterally since Obama has thrown her to the wolves.
16. Obama's Sec State is strangely silent for the past couple of days, and various surrogates are instead speaking the administration's positions on all of these foreign developments.
17. And this doesn't even BEGIN to address the fact that economy is in the crapper and Obama is an obstructionist to anything that would improve it.

Obama's answer to all of this? OMG!!!!! DID YOU HEAR WHAT ROMNEY SAID YESTERDAY?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Excellent summary

I see 3 choices or approaches:

1. Begin a military build-up unheard of since WWII. Bring back the draft. Invade all of the middle east and prepare to invade China. Then maintain a huge occupying force until we run out of money. That will fix the unemployment problem, not sure about the national debt tho.

2. Nuke'em and make the entire area uninhabitable for the next 1000 yrs. (sorry about the loss of all the oil). But watch out for the pesky Chinese.

3. Get out of dodge. Concentrate on our own business. Secure our borders, protect our freedoms, care for our poor and disadvantaged, cut off all foreign aid, rebuild our infrastructure.

Any other ideas?

2firfun50 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

1. The middle east is in flames.
2. China is not only threatening a bond attack on Japan, but they've moved naval assets into Japanese territorial waters and refuse to leave......and there exists an official Chinese map that shows those islands as belonging to Japan, so this is just a pretext for something else.....like the U.S. is busy and impotent, so we'll make trouble.
3. Syrian jets are bombing Lebanon.
4. Iran Revolutionary Guard troops are in both Syria and Lebanon (which Beiruty cannot blame on "The Jews").
5. Russia is making a play for sponsoring Syria.
6. An American ambassador is killed along with three others.
7. The white house press office is saying that the attack was not an attack on America.
8. The administration has an obnoxious film maker arrested in violation of his first amendment rights (while Michael Moore still roams free, not paying his fair share in taxes and scarfing up all the food.
9. The white house has nothing to say about Bill Maher's equally insulting movie which attacks muslims as well as christians.
10. Iraq is lost.
11. Afghanistan is about to be lost.
12. Iran has committed submarines to the gulf in preparation of blocking the straights of Hormuz.
13. Iran is now 6 months from being a nuclear armed nation.
14. Our embassy in LONDON, ENGLAND is set on fire by radical Islamist retards.
15. Israel is about to act unilaterally since Obama has thrown her to the wolves.
16. Obama's Sec State is strangely silent for the past couple of days, and various surrogates are instead speaking the administration's positions on all of these foreign developments.
17. And this doesn't even BEGIN to address the fact that economy is in the crapper and Obama is an obstructionist to anything that would improve it.

Obama's answer to all of this? OMG!!!!! DID YOU HEAR WHAT ROMNEY SAID YESTERDAY?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Excellent summary

I see 3 choices or approaches:

1. Begin a military build-up unheard of since WWII. Bring back the draft. Invade all of the middle east and prepare to invade China. Then maintain a huge occupying force until we run out of money. That will fix the unemployment problem, not sure about the national debt tho.

2. Nuke'em and make the entire area uninhabitable for the next 1000 yrs. (sorry about the loss of all the oil). But watch out for the pesky Chinese.

3. Get out of dodge. Concentrate on our own business. Secure our borders, protect our freedoms, care for our poor and disadvantaged by giving them jobs when the economy improves, cut off all foreign aid, rebuild our infrastructure.

Any other ideas?

Fixed it for you.....

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2012 ... oter-rolls

By Chad Livengood
Detroit News Lansing Bureau
209 Comments
Lansing — One day after being sued over a controversial ballot box citizenship question, Secretary of State Ruth Johnson said Tuesday there are an estimated 4,000 noncitizens on Michigan's voter rolls.

The estimate is based on the state's access to citizenship information for one-fifth of the population, Johnson said, adding the federal government won't give her access to more citizenship data. [emphasis mine]

More democrat voter fraud and administration coverup.

Panetta: New Asia focus not aimed to contain China
By LOLITA C. BALDOR | Associated Press – 10 hrs ago
http://news.yahoo.com/panetta-asia-focu ... 22761.html

BEIJING (AP) — Top Chinese leaders have a better understanding of America's new focus on the Asia-Pacific region, but they are concerned that there is too much emphasis on China's military build-up rather than economic or diplomatic efforts, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Wednesday.

After two days of meetings with political and military officials, Panetta said he comes away hopeful that the two nations can work together to bolster security in the region.

AND so the administration has also collapsed its Pacific Rim strategy.

OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS COMING APART AT THE SEAMS, AND NERO.....I MEAN OBAMA.... IS FIDDLING WHILE THE WORLD BURNS!!!

For you 3rd party folks who still want to wreck the election and ensure Obama's reelection:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/qa-with ... llyn-root/
Q&A WITH FORMER LIBERTARIAN VP CANDIDATE TURNED ROMNEY SUPPORTER WAYNE ALLYN ROOT

Q: You have announced that you will be stepping down from your affiliations with the Libertarian Party, and are now supporting Republican nominee for president Mitt Romney. Why?

......it was time to make a change. I’ll always love the Libertarian Party. I hope to work hand in hand with Libertarians like Gary Johnson and Libertarian Republicans like Ron Paul and U.S. Senator Rand Paul to move this country in the direction of smaller, less intrusive government, less spending, and lower taxes. But to effect change, I now realize it has to be done in a party that can get people elected. That’s the Republican Party.

This election is the most important of my lifetime, the most important in the history of America. The economy is in danger of complete collapse. Did you see the latest jobs report? Disaster. Have you seen that sales tax revenues in California in July were down a staggering $530 million versus projections? Disaster. Did you see petroleum sales nationally in July were down to 1996 levels? Disaster. Are you aware that “Help Wanted” ads are down to levels not seen since the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008–when the entire financial system was on the verge of Armageddon.

These are signs of an economic tragedy unfolding in slow motion, right before our eyes. This is what happens when you put a man in charge who despises business, who loves bureaucracy, who thinks government has the answer to every problem, who has never met a tax he doesn’t love, and who has never run a business or created a job in his life. He isn’t qualified to run a bodega or a Dairy Queen, let alone the U.S. economy.

It’s time to put our differences aside to save our economy and the American Dream for future generations. To do this, we need to join together in one big tent to support Mitt Romney now. Or we will lose our country.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:3. Get out of dodge. Concentrate on our own business. Secure our borders, protect our freedoms, care for our poor and disadvantaged by giving them jobs when the economy improves, cut off all foreign aid, rebuild our infrastructure.

Any other ideas?

Fixed it for you.....

Cut off the handouts. If some Americans aren't willing to do the menial jobs which they're qualified to do, then they shouldn't get a dime until they're willing to get off their lazy chairs and compete with immigrants for those jobs.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... fda77612f7
Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press – 53 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — most of them in the middle class — will face a tax penalty for not carrying medical coverage once President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law is fully in place, congressional budget analysts said Wednesday.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.

The numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office are significantly higher than a previous projection by the same office in 2010, shortly after the law passed.

The earlier estimate found 4 million people would be affected in 2016, when the penalty is fully in effect. The difference — 2 million people— represents a 50 percent increase.

That's still only a sliver of the population, given that more than 150 million people currently are covered by employer plans. Nonetheless, in his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.

And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.

Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.

I am uninsured. Come 2013, I get to start paying a fine so that the government can insure people who don't work.........and I'll still be uninsured. I most sincerely hope that Pelosi/Reed/Obama choke on a chicken bone.

smoothoperator wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:3. Get out of dodge. Concentrate on our own business. Secure our borders, protect our freedoms, care for our poor and disadvantaged by giving them jobs when the economy improves, cut off all foreign aid, rebuild our infrastructure.

Any other ideas?

Fixed it for you.....

Cut off the handouts. If some Americans aren't willing to do the menial jobs which they're qualified to do, then they shouldn't get a dime until they're willing to get off their lazy chairs and compete with immigrants for those jobs.

We're on the same page. Even well known liberal Judge Judy told someone on her show the other day who said she'd be GLAD to get a job if Judy would just help her find one, YELLED at the little snot, "THERE'S JOBS OUT THERE. IF YOU WANT A JOB, THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS. IT'S CALLED 'DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT !!!!!!'"

Snot said, "I tried that, it didn't work out so well." Judge Judy yelled back at her, "Of course it didn't, with your attitude!"

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... fda77612f7
Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press – 53 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — most of them in the middle class — will face a tax penalty for not carrying medical coverage once President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law is fully in place, congressional budget analysts said Wednesday.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.

The numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office are significantly higher than a previous projection by the same office in 2010, shortly after the law passed.

The earlier estimate found 4 million people would be affected in 2016, when the penalty is fully in effect. The difference — 2 million people— represents a 50 percent increase.

That's still only a sliver of the population, given that more than 150 million people currently are covered by employer plans. Nonetheless, in his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.

And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.

Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.

I am uninsured. Come 2013, I get to start paying a fine so that the government can insure people who don't work.........and I'll still be uninsured. I most sincerely hope that Pelosi/Reed/Obama slowly choke on a roadkill skunk bone.

I fixed it for ya

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... fda77612f7
Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press – 53 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 6 million Americans — most of them in the middle class — will face a tax penalty for not carrying medical coverage once President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law is fully in place, congressional budget analysts said Wednesday.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.

The numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office are significantly higher than a previous projection by the same office in 2010, shortly after the law passed.

The earlier estimate found 4 million people would be affected in 2016, when the penalty is fully in effect. The difference — 2 million people— represents a 50 percent increase.

That's still only a sliver of the population, given that more than 150 million people currently are covered by employer plans. Nonetheless, in his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.

And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.

Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.

I am uninsured. Come 2013, I get to start paying a fine so that the government can insure people who don't work.........and I'll still be uninsured.

The IRS is actually helping Obama keep his "no raising taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000" promise by saying that their agents won't audit you for not paying that particular tax/penalty/abomination. I wonder how this'll affect next year's federal budget?

I've got a serious question for those opposed to paying for health insurance or being taxed for that decision.

I understand that Plan A is to never have a serious illness or injury, not pay any taxes, or health insurance, etc..

But if misfortune should strike, what is Plan B? Who pays the bill?

But if misfortune should strike, what is Plan B? Who pays the bill? [/quote]

Currently we all do, by all, I mean those who either pay taxes or buy insurance. This of course includes employers who offer Insurance to the their employers. The costs uncompensated of care is spread around to many places in the system, with the government picking up a large share through it's programs. and is part of the rate negotiations with private insurance companies. The higher the cost to the private comapnies the higher the mark-up into premiums.

2firfun50 wrote:I've got a serious question for those opposed to paying for health insurance or being taxed for that decision.

I understand that Plan A is to never have a serious illness or injury, not pay any taxes, or health insurance, etc..

But if misfortune should strike, what is Plan B? Who pays the bill?

When I wrecked my knee in the 80's and needed arthroscopic surgery, (and had no insurance), I found a doctor in Dallas who was willing to make a payment arrangement with me. It's the same at county hospitals. The care there is free only if you have no intention of ever making payments for the services rendered.

hi-power wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:I've got a serious question for those opposed to paying for health insurance or being taxed for that decision.

I understand that Plan A is to never have a serious illness or injury, not pay any taxes, or health insurance, etc..

But if misfortune should strike, what is Plan B? Who pays the bill?

When I wrecked my knee in the 80's and needed arthroscopic surgery, (and had no insurance), I found a doctor in Dallas who was willing to make a payment arrangement with me. It's the same at county hospitals. The care there is free only if you have no intention of ever making payments for the services rendered.

I forgot to add in my post above the rare honorable individuals who pay cash and pay their bills.

2firfun50 wrote:I've got a serious question for those opposed to paying for health insurance or being taxed for that decision.
I understand that Plan A is to never have a serious illness or injury, not pay any taxes, or health insurance, etc..
But if misfortune should strike, what is Plan B? Who pays the bill?

This is an excellent question, but it's framed in a way that might cause folks to try and answer you in a narrow way...

A broader question would be "How do you fix healthcare so that fewer folks are without coverage?"
And as we all know, the answer is complicated... But, let me try and answer your question with some healthcare "fixes" and we'll see how it goes..

1. Postulate: If insurance costs less, more people will buy it. The cost of insurance is too high, because the cost of healthcare is too high and regulations and laws are misguided, causing further cost escalation.
- Reform healthcare tort, set limits on malpractice suits based on some reasonable categorization of injury/disability/etc.
- Reform FDA rules for drug discovery
- Implement technology to remove waste and fraud from the system
- Allow insurance products to be sold across State lines. The states with the most beneficial combinations of offerings will win. Other states will follow. For example, the insurance industry in Texas, IN MY OPINION, is a rigged game that favors insurers. The insurance regulators in TX, IN MY OPINION, are in cahoots with the industry. Why can't I buy an insurance product sold from Missouri?
- Allow ad-hoc, industry, professional, trade and other groups to band together to purchase healthcare insurance as a group. Currently, for example, TAM, who appears to be self employed (making assumptions here) cannot join together with a "web developer" trade group and go to the insurance companies to purchase a group plan. TAM must apply for coverage as an individual. This is insurance over-regulation at it's worst. It impacts entrepreneurship severely. Who will take the risk to start a business if you can no longer afford health insurance because you lost your buying power? Stupidity.
-There are MYRIAD other regulatory changes that would make insurance cost less. I'll let you ponder that and move on.

2. Postulate: If people knew the costs and could shop for care, competition would drive costs down.
- Witness the cost and technology of vision correction / laser eye surgery. Huge leaps in technology, dramatic decreases in cost. Why? Because most insurance doesn't cover it. People know what it costs because it's not just a copay.
- HDHP - We switched to a high deductible healthcare plan a few years ago. IIRC, our family deductible is about $4,000 before we see any benefits from our insurance company, except that our plan covers preventative care from $0. Where before I didn't care what the doctor visit cost, because I paid $25 or $35 per visit regardless, now that I have to pay $200 for an office visit when I have the sniffles, I behave differently. I talk with my doctors about cost, I've changed doctors due to cost, I review the bills and fix discrepancies before the bill gets paid, my expectation of my doctors has changed, I view them as service providers and don't stand for hour-long waiting room times... My insurance cost went down by about $400/month. More than enough to cover my deductible. By putting the saved cost into a HSA, I can save tax-free for medical expenses. After a year or two the balance in the HSA will be such that I can start reducing my HSA contributions and putting that money into my pocket for things like toys and vacations.
- Transparency. The cost for all medical procedures should be required to be available to all CUSTOMERS. Hospitals should post their fees, same for doctors, etc. Technology will help you shop for medical services just like Kayak helps you shop for airfares. Doctors who are good and also efficient will thrive. Doctors who are not will find something else to do.
- again... ad infinitum.

3. Now that we've driven the cost down.... and allowed people to band together to buy insurance.... we'll have more people covered for less money and we'll bend the cost trend line downward. But, some people will still not buy insurance. That is a risk they take.
- If a person has a major medical event, and does not have insurance....
---- Means testing....
......... If they are below the poverty line, they would be eligible for Medicare or other existing programs.
......... If they are making $60,000/year and have a house full of TV's and a garage full of toys (and a safe full of guns ), then they have made a financial decision about their life that they will need to take personal responsibility for. Rather than "TAX" people for not buying insurance, you make those that don't buy it "accountable" for the risk they chose to take. YES, that could be a life-altering financial miscalculation. But if we are a nation of Liberty, we also need to recognize that Liberty comes with Responsibility.
......... Community organizations.. How many times a year are you asked to contribute to cover medical costs for a friend at Church, a coworker, etc. How many charity golf tournaments do you play in? There are many "community based" ways of covering unexpected healthcare costs. Hopefully these are needed less frequently as we bend the cost curve down.

In today's regulatory environment, healthcare is unnecessarily expensive. First we need to fix that, then we need to let people be responsible for the decisions they make.

YMMV