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Car keys. Kids as young as 5 have taken keys and started vehicles. Usually they have a low-speed collision before going far, but even that can cost thousands of dollars.

- Jim

tallmike wrote: Do you carry a knife for self defense, or perhaps some chemicals from under the sink thrown at the bad guy? No.

Actually I do carry a knife for self defense sometimes.

tallmike wrote: Guns are more dangerous than those items because a kid just picking on up can kill themself or someone else, if they pick it up with pressure on the trigger.

True but wouldn't that be a training issue and not an issue with hiding the gun?

tallmike wrote: I no longer lock up chemicals because my kids have outgrown that stage (the cabinets were certainly locked when they were younger).

Ok, that answer shows that most of the remaining communication will probably fall on deaf ears because you've chosen to lock up which is understandable and the path that has worked best for you. Personally we've always worked with training our kids instead of locking things up as we can take comfort in the fact they've learned how to handle themselves around things instead of second guessing if we locked everything up. I agree that the training needs to vary based on age but we've always started with, no don't touch and continued to reinforce and then moved to a more responsibility base training such as properly handling a knife, etc.

tallmike wrote: A child may pick up a knife and cut themself, the cut can heal very easily and is unlikely to cause any long term damage or death. The chance of death from a child playing with a knife is about the same a child playing with kid scissors or a nice pen. They can fall while holding any of them and impale themselves on it causing death.

Apparently you haven't seen some of my knives

tallmike wrote: You can try to make those other items the same as a gun, but we all know the reality is they are not the same. Guns kill quickly and easily, that is why we all carry them. They are dangerous because they have to be in order to fulfill their function.

Agreed with the lethal function of guns but again there are many things that are lethal that we do not lock up or remove from our kids that can kill quickly as well. A short example is some parents that we knew years ago that argued that you can't teach kids not to play in the street and instead just kept their front door locked and bolted. We argued with then that you could but it wasn't a quick or easy process but was absolutely necessary and required continual reinforcement. One night they go out on a date and the babysitter was preoccupied with another child for a just a minute and their two year old tragically went running into the street and was run over by a truck. Saying I told you so would not be bring back their wonderful child however I believe the death was preventable. What happens if you're at a friends house that doesn't believe in locking their guns up or forgets to after just coming back from the range. The kids playing in the house while your visiting your friends and they come across that gun. If you're saying they would know better and wouldn't touch it then why lock the guns at your place up? Is it for that time they won't make the good decision? What if that bad decision time comes when your kids are at your friends house?

tallmike wrote: Kids do not make the best choices all the time, that is why they have parents to teach them. I teach my kids about gun safety and shooting while under my supervision. They own, and love to watch, the NRA training video with Eddie Eagle that teaches them to "stop, dont touch, leave the area, tell an adult" and my daugter likes to show the little dance to people she meets. Just because they know not to touch guns doesnt mean I will leave them out to test the training. There is too much on the line. OK Im ranting now so Ill stop...

Good for you and hopefully you don't see this as an attack, just trying to prevent a different view of possible solutions to the same problem...firearms and kids.

All in all there can be many solutions to the same problem and no solution is necessarily the best for all cases but I appreciate your view tallmike.

I agree with a lot of what you have said here Lost. I believe very strongly in training but I do not trust in that training when dealing with a child without any consideration given to the situation. Kids brains are not developed to the level that I would trust their decision making with a life/death situation without supervision. I trust my 7 y/o would make the right decision when presented with a gun out in the open at a friends house, my 4 y/o not so much. Even still I would not intentionally leave a gun laying around where my 7 y/o would find it, she is trained to deal with situations I can not control though.

Kids too often react on impulse and do not think of the consequences of their actions. There are also adults who do not stop to consider the consequences before they act, but in general that is a skill you slowly develop over the years you spend as a child learning from the adults around you.

Im glad that training alone worked for your children, but I still think that training coupled with reasonable efforts on the part of adults to keep the most extreme dangers away from children is by far the best choice.

Take care =)

tallmike wrote:Im glad that training alone worked for your children, but I still think that training coupled with reasonable efforts on the part of adults to keep the most extreme dangers away from children is by far the best choice.

Take care =)

You too, thanks for the courteous dialog and the best to you and your family.