Is this concealed

[pt145ss]

Gonna play devil’s advocate here (nothing unusual for me). I am not sure if I agree with blanket statements like “if it can be seen, then it’s not concealed.� I think a more accurate statement is along the lines…�If it can be observed and discerned as a weapon by an average person from a vantage point where said average person is allowed to be…then it is not concealed.� Here is a couple of things to illustrate my point.

One, when we carry, from time to time, someone might notice a bulge under our shirt. To the average person, it usually does not mean anything. Although, what they are seeing is in fact a weapon they are not able to discern that it is one. A LEO who is training is such detection might be able to discern that it is a weapon….but not the average person. If a weapon is under your shirt and it clearly pints the shape of your weapon and the average person can discern that it is a weapon…even though they can not see the weapon itself, it is not concealed.

Two, a buddy of mine has a single shot .22. This single shot .22 is designed to look exactly like a writing pen. When put into a shirt pocket (with the end stinking out just like a pen), it can not be discerned as a weapon. It is “hidden in plain view.� Although, it can be seen clearly, it is concealed because no one can discern that it is a weapon. Not to long ago, I saw something about belt buckles. These buckles had little .22 revolvers incorporated in the design of the buckle. To the average person, they may not have any clue that the buckle is actually a function firearm....again, it is concealed in plain view.

You know…but then again…I may be way off base here.

[WildBill]

Gonna play devil’s advocate here (nothing unusual for me). I am not sure if I agree with blanket statements like “if it can be seen, then it’s not concealed.� I think a more accurate statement is along the lines…�If it can be observed and discerned as a weapon by an average person from a vantage point where said average person is allowed to be…then it is not concealed.�

The statements are not mutually exclusive:

If a handgun is in plain view it is not concealed. Period.

If it is covered or hidden so that it can't definitely identified as a handgun, then it is debatable.

[pt145ss]

The statements are not mutually exclusive:

If a handgun is in plain view it is not concealed. Period.

Please explain... Lets go back to the .22 scenario. The .22, when in the shirt pocket, is clearly in plain view, but I do not think anyone would know that it is a handgun with out taking it completely out of the pocket and inspecting it. When configured to shoot, I would assume it meets all the criteria of being a handgun.

So given the scenario above…the .22 pen…is it concealed or is it not concealed when in the shirt pocket? When in the shirt pocket, is it in plain view, or is it not in plain view?

[Armed-Texan]

just drape something over it. i will put my gun between the seats and put a little towel(the one you get from Shell when you buy ten gallons of gas) over it. no one can see it, in or out of the vehicle. it may look suspicious to someone who is into guns or carrying guns, but the average joe walking buy is going to see a red rag, under my thigh.

i was wondering about the desantis kingston holster, you know the one that straps to the seat and keeps the gun between your knees while driving. if anyone walked by they would see it, or if an officer approached your vehicle they would definitely not be happy. i thought if i put a towel in the seat of my truck and draped it over the grip, it is concealed. would make it slower to get to, but quicker than trying to get around the seatbelt issue.

[WildBill]

The statements are not mutually exclusive:

If a handgun is in plain view it is not concealed. Period.

Please explain... Lets go back to the .22 scenario. The .22, when in the shirt pocket, is clearly in plain view, but I do not think anyone would know that it is a handgun with out taking it completely out of the pocket and inspecting it. When configured to shoot, I would assume it meets all the criteria of being a handgun.

So given the scenario above…the .22 pen…is it concealed or is it not concealed when in the shirt pocket? When in the shirt pocket, is it in plain view, or is it not in plain view?

IMO, if you had a CHL you'd be okay. But if you didn't and the police searched you and found it was a gun, you would be charged.

[pt145ss]

The statements are not mutually exclusive:

If a handgun is in plain view it is not concealed. Period.

Please explain... Lets go back to the .22 scenario. The .22, when in the shirt pocket, is clearly in plain view, but I do not think anyone would know that it is a handgun with out taking it completely out of the pocket and inspecting it. When configured to shoot, I would assume it meets all the criteria of being a handgun.

So given the scenario above…the .22 pen…is it concealed or is it not concealed when in the shirt pocket? When in the shirt pocket, is it in plain view, or is it not in plain view?

IMO, if you had a CHL you'd be okay. But if you didn't and the police searched you and found it was a gun, you would be charged.

Agreed...

The point being...concealed is not just about "plain view"...to me it is more about discernability.

[Mike from Texas]

Well duhhhhhh, it even tells you on the door you ain't supposed to have it there. Didn't you see the "bottles only" sticker?

Seriously, IMO that's not concealed.

[frankie_the_yankee]

I thought those .22 pen guns, and other guns that purposely do not look like guns, were illegal. (Or maybe it's just that they can't be imported.)

As Chas points out from time to time, (I'm paraphrasing here) those who ride on the razor edge of the law frequently end up bleeding like pigs.

Just conceal the gun. The guy who said that if you have to ask, it's not concealed was right on IMO.

If I want to play games, a good round of DOOM is always fun. When I carry a gun in public, it's all business.

[red2000vette]

When in my 4Runner for any extended time.. like an hour's drive or so, I've been keeping my pistol (either HK P2000 or Sig P239) in the door compartment like this


I'm always careful not to open the door if someone could possibly see the gun in there, but got to thinking if I had a traffic stop, would this be an issue as far as being concealed. I know I'd need to announce to the stopping officer that I have a CHL, and where the gun is.

Put it where you can't see it and couldn't possibly get to it if needed - that would be considered concealed by a LEO.