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I still don't see the basic facts being reported any differently in this article than in the first article. He still fired on a fleeing automobile. He still says he was afraid for his life, but he still doesn't say why. All we have so far, including from people quoted in the article, is pure speculation as to his reason for shooting.

The shooter's attorney says:

"I think he had a good idea that they had something they were reaching for down in that car," said Wheat of the shooting incident, which put one man into the hospital."

{snip}

"Nobody really wanted for this guy to end up this way. Not the shooter, not anyone on the street, apparently not the people in the car, but they made a choice to go and steal stuff from a neighbor's house," said Wheat.

The attorney speculates without offering any proof or even a statement from his client that he suspected the BGs were reaching for a weapon. Has a weapon been found? Not so far. The "justification" the attorney makes for the shooting isn't that his client was threatened with a weapon, or even that his client saw a furtive movement, but rather that his client was justified in shooting because the perps made the choice to commit a robbery on his neighbor.

Still think the shooting stinks.

casingpoint wrote:But a third party has no vested interest in the property, and suffers no personal loss if the property is stolen.

Although I personally think it unwise to pull a Joe Horn when people are simply milling about your neighbor's property, I disagree with your statement. Crime committed at your neighbor's house affects you. Criminals are emboldened with each successful act, and some become increasingly violent as their criminal career progresses.

I kind of like the idea that neighbors would look out for each other's property.

Too bad so many people think that if it is not their own precious life or property that is threatened that they can just ignore it and have a clean conscience. IMHO that is ridiculously self-centered and cold-hearted, and it indicates the degraded state of our society as a whole.

mr.72 wrote:I kind of like the idea that neighbors would look out for each other's property.

Too bad so many people think that if it is not their own precious life or property that is threatened that they can just ignore it and have a clean conscience. IMHO that is ridiculously self-centered and cold-hearted, and it indicates the degraded state of our society as a whole.

While I agree that people should look out for neighbors (or anyone else's property), I don't think anyone is arguing that particular point of the original post.

I love the fact that I live in a neighborhood where I believe I enjoy the "concerned" neighbor plus factor, but I would feel bad if my neighbor were in the same situation as the gentleman in this story. What do you say to your next door neighbor when you return home and find he shot someone trying to take your stuff when you believe the shooting may not be justified?

I would be very happy with someone taking the time to call 911 unless they were truly acting to defend themselves and not just my property. Not so much because I don't want to keep my property, I just don't know what I would say when/if they went to prison for the good deed.

I still hope we are simply not being provided all the facts and the guy gets off. But, if someone is going to jail for making a bad decision to protect my property, I would prefer it be me and not my neighbor who happens to be my friend.

The Statesman is reporting that an arrest warrant has been issued for Oakes today.


http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... he_blotter

dave_in_austin wrote:The Statesman is reporting that an arrest warrant has been issued for Oakes today.


http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... he_blotter

but why

mr.72 wrote:I kind of like the idea that neighbors would look out for each other's property.

Too bad so many people think that if it is not their own precious life or property that is threatened that they can just ignore it and have a clean conscience. IMHO that is ridiculously self-centered and cold-hearted, and it indicates the degraded state of our society as a whole.

Doesn't it depend on the neighbor? I have one neighbor I wouldn't waste a phone call to 911 on, Yet another that I would fight to the death for. Generally I think the best neighbors are the ones that mind their own business. We get to choose our friends unfortunately we don't have much say in who our family and neighbors are.

Venus Pax wrote:

Crime committed at your neighbor's house affects you. Criminals are emboldened with each successful act, and some become increasingly violent as their criminal career progresses.

Your statement hints at the "urban jungle" defense, which holds it is axiomatic in certain environments someone, anyone is out to get you one way or the other, so get them first in self defense. Been tried and not upheld at bar.

Well I think tonight is "National Night Out". http://www.nationaltownwatch.org/

I am the first to admit that I am not real chummy with my neighbors. It's not that I am reclusive or that my family are non-social, but it's more about the fact that we are just not often home. We have a yard guy who does the yard work for us. I work on my cars inside the garage. We don't spend a lot of time outdoors in front of the house just shooting the breeze with the neighbors. We are insanely busy most of the time so we just don't take the time to get to know the neighbors. But last night as I was pulling into the driveway the lady from across the street walked up and talked to me about the National Night Out and she said that in the spirit of helping the neighbors to get to know each other, she and her family were going to host a barbecue in the cul-de-sac for NNO, and she wanted to see if my family could attend. We are going to make every effort to be there for at least part of it even though we have a Tuesday commitment at the same time.

Now I guess maybe this depends on the kind of neighborhood you are in, and how much you likely fit in with your neighbors. I live in a suburban middle-class "master planned community" type neighborhood on a cul-de-sac street with about 12 houses on it. All of the houses on our block are within 20% of the median price, we are all working similar types of jobs, most are families with school-age children, so you know we all kind of have a lot in common anyway. But I know of people (my parents, for example) who actively fued with their neighbors so I can see how it goes both ways.

Frankly I think that whether you like them as pals or not, getting to know your neighbors and banding together to watch out for one another is a huge deterrent to crime and only can have a positive impact on the community. Once my wife called while I was out on a bike ride at night and she had to be rushed to the hospital. You know I was really glad to find my next door neighbors there when I got home, keeping my kids. Once I had to be rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night and when they saw the ambulance lights several neighbors got out of bed and came out to see if they could do anything to help. There are many times when it has been a neighbor who has come to my aid, or I have come to theirs, and often times you might find that you are truly stuck and need some help and you may kick yourself for not finding a way to make friends of your neighbors.

IMHO of course. Easy for me to say, I live in a nice neighborhood with very nice neighbors.

Except that the date for Texas' National Night Out has been changed to October 7th.

Edited to add article:

Paper: Houston Chronicle
Date: Wed 06/25/2008
Section: A
Page: 1
Edition: 3 STAR R.O.

Crime fighters in Texas bump Night Out to cooler October / Police say heat of August keeps many people indoors

By ALLAN TURNER
Staff

For 24 long years, Houstonians swatted mosquitoes for law and order. They sweated for community solidarity. They turned out by the tens of thousands in the hottest part of the summer to join their fellow Americans in the crime-fighting National Night Out.

This year they're putting it all on ice. Sort of.

City police officials have announced that this year Houston and all of Texas will observe National Night Out on Oct. 7 - two months after the rest of the nation.

"You've been out at night in August, and you know what that's like," said police spokesman Jesse Martinez. "And you've been out at night in October, and you know what that's like, too."

This year, Houstonians who turn out to meet local police officials and their neighbors can expect temperatures to be about 11 degrees cooler than they were in August.

Last year, Martinez said, about 60,000 Houston-area residents participated in National Night Out activities.

"Now," he said, "I think we can make that number a lot higher."

Matt Peskin, executive director of the National Association of Town Watch, the Night Out sponsor, said his group agreed to experimentally reschedule Texas events after it received complaints about the heat from law enforcement agencies in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

"There are two trains of thought on this," he said. "It could be great, or it could be a total flop."

Dallas' average high temperature in August is 95 degrees, but it often gets hotter.

In 1998, the city was gripped by a 29-day heat wave in which the mercury consistently topped 100 degrees.

It was so hot that a train derailed near Fort Worth after heat warped the tracks.

Dallas' record August high stands at 115 degrees, recorded in 1909.

"It's always been hot," Peskin said. "But in recent years it's intensified."

Peskin said the October date for Texas will remain in effect until its impact on attendance is determined.

Last year, 35 million people in the United States and Canada turned out for National Night Out events.

...

TEMPERATURE SWING

In Houston, the weather in August is predictably hot and muggy (not to mention mosquito-infested). October temperatures can vary widely, but are more likely to be cooler.


Copyright notice: All materials in this archive are copyrighted by Houston

casingpoint wrote:Venus Pax wrote:

Crime committed at your neighbor's house affects you. Criminals are emboldened with each successful act, and some become increasingly violent as their criminal career progresses.

Your statement hints at the "urban jungle" defense, which holds it is axiomatic in certain environments someone, anyone is out to get you one way or the other, so get them first in self defense. Been tried and not upheld at bar.

I'm not "hinting" that someone is "out to get" us. I'm simply stating that criminals do get emboldened with each successful hit. If they do not have consequences for their behavior (and it doesn't necessarily mean they need to be shot), then they will likely continue in their endeavors.

it was discussed in great length in John Lott's book More Guns = Less Crime. He talked about the overall benefit to society when a criminal is stopped in the act.
and the exact opposite is also true.

Mike1951 wrote:Except that the date for Texas' National Night Out has been changed to October 7th.

I guess my city didn't get the memo. They are doing it tonight.

This man was indicted for criminally negligent homicide earlier this month:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/hill ... nd_shooter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His life as he knows it is over.

- Jim

Um, I'm under the impression that he did nothing wrong after reading the articles...