TexasCHLforum.com

Guns in school?

03Lightningrocks wrote:Cool...then by this logic, we should all be allowed to walk around naked in public, scream fire in a crowded theater and wear a T shirt with a swastika emblem on it in a Jewish Synagogue, all without being charged with creating a public disturbance.

Douva wrote:I encourage anyone who wants to get involved with the fight to legalize concealed carry on college campuses or anyone who is interested in the facts surrounding the debate over whether or not to legalize concealed carry on college campuses to start by reading the ""SCCC Handbook: Texas Edition".

Thanks. This was a good read.

Samurai Blur wrote:I'm not mad, it's just my opinion? And when did we get 2 civilians and 1 cop? It may have left out details, and I'm not saying it didn't, but what I did say is that they had to run across the lawn while Whitman was shooting. I don't know where you got the idea that I was trying to say that the three organized a plan together. I never said that. I admit that they each acted on their own, and that was the POINT I was trying to make. So you can stop twisting things up and trying to make it look like I don't know how it happened. Either way it goes, whether they went through a tunnel or ran across the lawn, they still went in, acting of their own, individual accord, and stopped the gunman, and the police that handled the columbine shooting attempted no such thing. So I don't see "trained tactics" as being a good excuse. And where the heck do you get that I was interpreting your thoughts about Columbine as an anti-gun sentiment?! I disagree with you, so suddenly I have to think your sentiments are anti-gun?! What the heck?

And my point is that your only supporting evidence that the men ran across the lawn, dodging gunfire, is one quote from one non-eyewitness who was interviewed for the documentary you cited. There may have been some people who ran across open ground to get to the tower, but the fact remains that it wasn't three brave souls, as you described, sprinting across the quad, dodging gunfire and dead bodies, to end the siege. It's not difficult to verify that the police officers who gained access to the tower did so through the tunnels that run under the UT campus (that's why the engineer who guided them through the tunnels is named on the plaque in the UT memorial garden), and it's not difficult to verify that the civilian who joined them played a rather minor role in the ordeal and nearly caused a very serious accident.

The tactics in place at the time of the Columbine shooting were direct descendants of this incident. The UT sniper attack was a catalyst in the development of SWAT teams and SWAT tactics. The strategy of securing the perimeter and waiting for the SWAT team was developed, in large part, as a response to this and similar incidents of that time period. And just as the UT sniper attack led to a change in tactics, so did the Columbine shooting spree.

The UT and Columbine attacks were completely different scenarios. There was no contingency plan in place during the UT attack. There WAS a contingency plan, albeit a flawed one, in place for the Columbine shooting, and it's not fair to blame the police officers who followed that plan. It's also not fair to suggest that defending the actions of those officers is tantamount to suggesting that defense of schools should be "left to the professionals." That type of knee-jerk reaction doesn't benefit anyone in this cause.

EDITED TO ADD: As far as the Columbine incident goes, I'll concede that some of the Littleton/Denver police officers in higher ranking positions probably should have made the executive decision to forgo standard procedure and breech much sooner than they did; however, I have a real problem with those who want to fault hundreds of "beat cops" for following both their training and their orders.

These are the legislators who have received handbooks so far:

Lt. Governor David Dewhurst

Senator Kevin Elfite - District 1
Senator Bob Deuell - District 2
Senator Robert Nichols - District 3
Senator Steve Ogden - District 5
Senator Florence Shaprio - District 8
Senator Chris Harris - District 9
Senator Mike Jackson - District 11
Senator Jane Nelson - District 12
Senator Rodney Ellis - District 13
Senator Kirk Watson - District 14
Senator John Carona - District 16
Senator Joan Huffman - District 17
Senator Judith Zaffirini - District 21
Senator Troy Fraser - District 24
Senator Jeff Wentworth - District 25
Senator Leticia Van de Putte - District 26
Senator Eddie Lucio, Jr. - District 27
Senator Robert Duncan - District 28

Rep. Stephen Frost - District 1
Rep. Bryan Hughes - District 5
Rep. Tommy Merritt - District 7
Rep. Wayne Christian - District 9
Rep. Lois Kolkhorst - District 13
Rep. Fred Brown - District 14
Rep. Brandon Creighton - District 16
Rep. Craig Eiland - District 23
Rep. Geanie Morrison - District 30
Rep. Eddie Lucio III - District 38
Rep. Aaron Peña - District 40
Rep. Patrick Rose - District 45
Rep. Valinda Bolton - District 47
Rep. Eddie Rodriguez - District 51
Rep. Jim Dunnam - District 57
Rep. Jim Keffer - District 60
Rep. Phil King - District 61
Rep. Burt Solomons - District 65
Rep. Brian McCall - District 66
Rep. Pete Gallego - District 74
Rep. Norma Chavez - District 76
Rep. Tryon Lewis - District 81
Rep. Tom Craddick - District 82
Rep. Delwin Jones - District 83
Rep. Carl Isett - District 84
Rep. Joe Heflin - District 85
Rep. David Swinford - District 87
Rep. Lon Burnam - District 90
Rep. Vicki Truitt - District 98
Rep. Allen Vaught - District 107
Rep. Dan Branch - District 108
Rep. Barbara Caraway - District 110
Rep. Joe Driver - District 113
Rep. Joe Straus - District 121
Rep. Allen Fletcher - District 130
Rep. Beverly Woolley - District 136
Rep. Hubert Vo - District 149

If you don't see your State Representative and/or State Senator listed, consider buying one or both of them a copy of the handbook ($9.25 + $5.25 S&H). You can locate your State Representative and/or State Senator here: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Handbooks can be purchased here: http://www.cafepress.com/lasttshirts.322143673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Douva wrote: EDITED TO ADD: As far as the Columbine incident goes, I'll concede that some of the Littleton/Denver police officers in higher ranking positions probably should have made the executive decision to forgo standard procedure and breech much sooner than they did; however, I have a real problem with those who want to fault hundreds of "beat cops" for following both their training and their orders.

I can respect that.

im a college student and i fully support the idea of being able to carry in a class with one concern haha... i talked to my CHL instructor about this as well... im not sure if i personally want some of the people that sit in my class to be able to carry a pistol... meaning if some crazy person busted into the lecture hall and started popping off rounds i would be worried about catching a bullet from the goofy kid sitting behind me too... so i was thinking that qualifications to be able to carry inside a class would be a little more challenging to pass than just the normal CHL test... im all for it though!!! don't get me wrong

swc007 wrote:im not sure if i personally want some of the people that sit in my class to be able to carry a pistol... meaning if some crazy person busted into the lecture hall and started popping off rounds i would be worried about catching a bullet from the goofy kid sitting behind me too...

There's no real tactical difference between a lecture hall and a movie theater or church sanctuary.

swc007 wrote:im a college student and i fully support the idea of being able to carry in a class with one concern haha... i talked to my CHL instructor about this as well... im not sure if i personally want some of the people that sit in my class to be able to carry a pistol... meaning if some crazy person busted into the lecture hall and started popping off rounds i would be worried about catching a bullet from the goofy kid sitting behind me too... so i was thinking that qualifications to be able to carry inside a class would be a little more challenging to pass than just the normal CHL test... im all for it though!!! don't get me wrong

Visit http://www.CampusCarry.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. That site and the sites to which it links should alleviate most of your concerns.

swc007 wrote:im a college student and i fully support the idea of being able to carry in a class with one concern haha... i talked to my CHL instructor about this as well... im not sure if i personally want some of the people that sit in my class to be able to carry a pistol... meaning if some crazy person busted into the lecture hall and started popping off rounds i would be worried about catching a bullet from the goofy kid sitting behind me too... so i was thinking that qualifications to be able to carry inside a class would be a little more challenging to pass than just the normal CHL test... im all for it though!!! don't get me wrong

I hear some instructors making such comments, but 15 years of experience with CHL doesn't support those concerns. As for a school shooter situation, while is is theoretically possible for a CHL holder to accidentally hit you by mistake, the murderer coming through the door is there specifically to kill you.

Chas.

swc007 wrote:... so i was thinking that qualifications to be able to carry inside a class would be a little more challenging to pass than just the normal CHL test... im all for it though!!! don't get me wrong

I am not for anymore "qualifications" (restrictions) to exercise the right to protect me and my family.

haha very true you guys r right... not much difference between a class room or movie theater

swc007 wrote:haha very true you guys r right... not much difference between a class room or movie theater

Actually, I would think that the movie theater would be a more difficult situation to operate in, it being dark 90% of he time, classroom, not so much.

Razgriz wrote:

swc007 wrote:haha very true you guys r right... not much difference between a class room or movie theater

Actually, I would think that the movie theater would be a more difficult situation to operate in, it being dark 90% of he time, classroom, not so much.

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