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Oldgringo wrote:

KC5AV wrote:I'm not sure if it was anything to worry about. The 'old Wal-Mart' in Tyler being used as a staging area, or distribution point for supplies to the evacuation shelters.

Why the deep tinted 'no see me' windows and 5-6 males in the "ride"? If the 'old Walmart' is` where I think it is on NW 323, this white dude doesn't want to get out of his car in that neighborhood at noon.

oldgringo wrote:Why be a target or a lightening rod or otherwise attract attention to yourself; especially, in a seedy neighborhood after dark?

Excaliber wrote:

oldgringo wrote:Why be a target or a lightening rod or otherwise attract attention to yourself; especially, in a seedy neighborhood after dark?

Most folks don't get dressed in the morning on the basis of what gas station they may need to stop at that night. Older folks especially are often creatures of habit and tend to dress in the same general style every day. If that includes nice clothes, shined shoes, and a wristwatch that's what they'll be wearing today, tomorrow, and the next day too.

In the hurricane damaged areas, there's still not a whole lot of choice of stations that have both power and gas. When a driver runs low on fuel, he'll get it where it's available rather than face pushing his car around looking for a station in a "nice" neighborhood. I don't think that constitutes asking for trouble as the above quote implies.

oldgringo wrote: 1. We all (all means all of God's children) should practice "situational awareness" in every aspect of our lives - day and night.
2. I didn't know Tyler was a hurricane damaged area and I live some 60 miles from there. What a dolt I must be.

Excaliber wrote:

CHLSteve wrote:A old silver car with very dark tinted windows pulled up in front of our truck, and sat there for 2-3 minutes--we could not see the driver or any passengers due to the window tint. They just sat there. Then, they pulled around the other side of our pump and rolled down only the back window. The guys we could see were black, and my FIL is a rich-looking older white guy. We could see 3 guys in the back seat, so I figure there were 4 or 5 people in the car. He asked my FIL something about "where the old wal-mart was". It didn't make any sense, and they seemed to be sizing him up to see if he/we would be an easy target. I was feeling very uneasy and kept my eyes on them the whole time, then my wife asked me if I had my gun--I guess she felt it too. After they got done talking, they rolled up their window, and sat there again for 3-4 minutes. We could not see into the car at all. They finally pulled around, and parked in front of the gas station storefront.

I've read a lot of criminal incident reports (and written a raft of them too.) I see no valid reason for raising an alarm of racism over what appears to be a very straightforward and factual post describing an incident that provides a very beneficial learning opportunity for members of this forum.

The descriptions of the persons involved in this case, including their ethnicity, is a simple recounting of material fact. If this incident had been reported to police, the number of occupants of the suspicious vehicle and their ethnicity would have been included in the report because these facts and the description of the vehicle would have been useful for connecting them to other incidents. This has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with accurately reporting the observable visual elements at the scene.

The key element here is that the behavior of the vehicle's occupants as noted in the highlighted areas of the OP's quote above is not at all consistent with what people do when they want to get driving directions. The parking of the second vehicle in a blocking position to the OP's vehicle, the inactivity for a significant period of time, a repositioning of the vehicle, and the opening of the rear window to make contact (direction seekers open the front window so the driver can clearly hear directions first hand) do not fit an innocent interpretation. Very dark window tint is also favored by the criminal element for masking the identity, number, and movements of occupants from the police and others, and is another factor that shouldn't be overlooked.

On the other hand, the behavior of the second vehicle's occupants is very consistent with the maneuvering that accompanies the target evaluation and pre attack positioning phases of a violent incident. Furthermore, at least two people in the OP's car felt threatened enough to converse about whether a defensive weapon was available. This is consistent with the subconscious detection of additional danger signs that victims often experience just before a major incident occurs. It manifests itself as a "bad feeling," "being creeped out," or feeling that "something bad is about to happen." The OP's family felt sufficiently threatened that they terminated their gas tank fill up and left the area. Although no one can say for certain what the intentions of the persons in the second car were since no incident occurred and conversation with them was extremely limited, the account as reported sure sounds to me like the type of preattack setup I've seen with many incidents that did develop into violent crimes. Victims of completed incidents often recount that they saw very suspicious behavior on the part of their assailants, but they discounted its importance and told themselves they were just imagining things until it was too late to get away. In this case, the OP trusted his feelings instead of denying what everything he saw was telling him, and he was successful in avoiding an incident by departing the area.

My overall read is: good outcome on a very close call.

Excaliber wrote:

oldgringo wrote: 1. We all (all means all of God's children) should practice "situational awareness" in every aspect of our lives - day and night.
2. I didn't know Tyler was a hurricane damaged area and I live some 60 miles from there. What a dolt I must be.

Well, oldgringo, you won't get any argument from me on #1. However, if I understand the OP correctly, in this case the dicey situation didn't exist when his family pulled into the station - it developed after they started fueling the car. They apparently were situationally aware and quickly realized things were not looking good. They then took the best course of action available. My point was that these folks did not dress or position themselves to look for trouble - it came looking for them.

On #2, I'm the dolt here. I had seen mandatory evacuation orders for residents of Tyler, but a quick recheck of those stories showed they referred to Tyler county, a bit north of Beaumont, and not to the Tyler near Dallas. That was my error as far as the hurricane effect goes, but that's incidental to my point, which is that, while traveling, folks don't always have a great choice of gas stations in areas where they'd feel relaxed. This situation is much worse during emergencies of any kind, but is also not unusual the rest of the time.

I've gassed up at many places where my BG radar was on high alert the whole time, but there weren't any better places I knew of within 50 miles. If I see an active issue, I'll pass by and find someplace else (I never run close to empty to preserve my options), but if the place is just run down and used by a widely varying clientele,and the options are few and far between, I'll secure my provisions while being prepared to recognize and respond quickly to a situation if one should develop.