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KD5NRH wrote:

Excaliber wrote:If you install the deadbolt with a digital code,

That's the one I was thinking of, I just hadn't bookmarked it on the laptop. I'm considering putting one on our bedroom closet as well, so I can keep a shotgun handy without worrying about the kid getting to it, and without needing to dig out a key if I need the gun. (and kids can find keys unless you carry them on you at all times...besides, by the time that's an issue, we'll need somewhere to hide birthday and Christmas presents, too.)

you'll need to either install an entry latch set (the one that automatically engages to keep the door closed) with a digital code as well, or a passage set that is always free from both sides.

I've seen a lot of new construction where they only put in a deadbolt and a non-locking handleset. It always seemed somewhat silly to me to back up a heavy duty deadbolt with a cheap locking knobset anyway...especially since it usually seems to accompany the deadbolt strike hole being too shallow to let it engage properly, so people only use the knobset's lock.

Frankly, all strategic implications aside, since I keep the car key alone attached to a kubotan, I'm just tired of having to dig the house keys out of my pocket

The latch set is there primarily to keep the door shut when you close it without having to engage the deadbolt.

The security of a door depends on the construction of the door, frame, and lock strike as well as the lock. Most residential construction has the lock strike (the part the bolt or latch goes into in the frame) installed with only 3/4" screws that only engage the door casing. With one solid kick, the wood fractures,the screws fall out, and the door opens. Virginia Beach PD has a short article that may be of interest to folks who want to understand door locking systems a little better.

If the strike hole for the bolt isn't deep enough to allow the deadbolt to fully extend, it doesn't function as a deadbolt and can be retracted with a knife, screwdriver, or similar tool if it can be reached from the outside. It's easy enough to make it deeper. After removing the existing strike, you can do the job with an electric drill and a one inch spade or similar bit in about 30 seconds.

You can greatly improve the security of the door by installing a reinforced strike with 3 inch screws that go through the door frame and the gap behind it and penetrate deeply into the 2/4 framing member behind it. Installation takes about a half hour with a sharp chisel and a power drill.

Another significant advantage to the digital locks is you can't lock yourself out unless you forget the code. This can be downright handy at times, like when the wind blows the locked door shut behind you.

KD5NRH wrote:
I've seen a lot of new construction where they only put in a deadbolt and a non-locking handleset. It always seemed somewhat silly to me to back up a heavy duty deadbolt with a cheap locking knobset anyway...especially since it usually seems to accompany the deadbolt strike hole being too shallow to let it engage properly, so people only use the knobset's lock.

Worse yet is the set up my Sister in Law has. A keyed privacy lock and a deadbolt on the exterior door leading into her kitchen. Sounds good right?

I pointed out to her that even if she locked both of them...there is a problem...because her kitchen door has a 9 pane window in it!

Both locks are about 8 inches away from the nearest pane. So.............its a simple matter to break out a pane, reach in and unlock the door. That did not make her make feel very good....especially since I had just "cleared" her house two nights before (2:00 a.m. in the morning) when she failed to close the door completely and the wind blew it open. She called me in a terrible panic...and since she lives about a 1/4 mile from us....I went straight over there.

Anyway, if you have locks on a door with a paned window in it (near the locks), just be aware that they are useless for the purpose of keeping anyone out.

flintknapper wrote:
snipped...
Anyway, if you have locks on a door with a paned window in it (near the locks), just be aware that they are useless for the purpose of keeping anyone out.

That's why you buy a double cylinder lock(where you need a key from both sides, not just the outside)...and don't defeat the purpose by leaving the key in it from the inside, like i've seen some people do.

-Cain

CainA wrote:

flintknapper wrote:
snipped...
Anyway, if you have locks on a door with a paned window in it (near the locks), just be aware that they are useless for the purpose of keeping anyone out.

That's why you buy a double cylinder lock(where you need a key from both sides, not just the outside)...and don't defeat the purpose by leaving the key in it from the inside, like i've seen some people do.

-Cain

Personally, I'm gonna go with solid doors (for a number of reasons), not the least of which is I don't want to find myself locked in because of a double cylinder and a pressing emergency. I'm sure they have good purposes though (just not for me).

CainA wrote:

flintknapper wrote:
snipped...
Anyway, if you have locks on a door with a paned window in it (near the locks), just be aware that they are useless for the purpose of keeping anyone out.

That's why you buy a double cylinder lock(where you need a key from both sides, not just the outside)...and don't defeat the purpose by leaving the key in it from the inside, like i've seen some people do.

-Cain

A sheet of 1/8" lexan secured to the inside of the window frames does a fine job of keeping outside hands from getting to the inside locks. Window films designed to prevent penetration of the glass (e.g., Armorcoat) also do a good job if properly installed.

I strongly disfavor double cylinder locks for life safety reasons - you can find yourself locked in during a fire or other emergency. Yes, I know you always keep the key either in the lock (which negates the reason for installing a double cylinder lock) or nearby, but when you're fumbling around in a smoke filled house, you'd be surprised how hard it is to find that key and get it into the keyhole. The same is doubly true if you find yourself trying to make an emergency exit because your furnace malfunctioned and you're suffering major effects from carbon monoxide poisoning. There are lots of other similar scenarios, but my personal principle is: Make it hard for unauthorized people to get in, and easy for anyone to get out.

Excaliber wrote:

CainA wrote:

flintknapper wrote:
snipped...
Anyway, if you have locks on a door with a paned window in it (near the locks), just be aware that they are useless for the purpose of keeping anyone out.

That's why you buy a double cylinder lock(where you need a key from both sides, not just the outside)...and don't defeat the purpose by leaving the key in it from the inside, like i've seen some people do.

-Cain

A sheet of 1/8" lexan secured to the inside of the window frames does a fine job of keeping outside hands from getting to the inside locks. Window films designed to prevent penetration of the glass (e.g., Armorcoat) also do a good job if properly installed.

I strongly disfavor double cylinder locks for life safety reasons - you can find yourself locked in during a fire or other emergency. Yes, I know you always keep the key either in the lock (which negates the reason for installing a double cylinder lock) or nearby, but when you're fumbling around in a smoke filled house, you'd be surprised how hard it is to find that key and get it into the keyhole. The same is doubly true if you find yourself trying to make an emergency exit because your furnace malfunctioned and you're suffering major effects from carbon monoxide poisoning. There are lots of other similar scenarios, but my personal principle is: Make it hard for unauthorized people to get in, and easy for anyone to get out.

That is something I had not thought of. Hmmmmm...I could easily source that locally and install it myself.

Good idea! I think she would like that.

Excaliber wrote:
A sheet of 1/8" lexan secured to the inside of the window frames does a fine job of keeping outside hands from getting to the inside locks. Window films designed to prevent penetration of the glass (e.g., Armorcoat) also do a good job if properly installed.

I strongly disfavor double cylinder locks for life safety reasons - you can find yourself locked in during a fire or other emergency. Yes, I know you always keep the key either in the lock (which negates the reason for installing a double cylinder lock) or nearby, but when you're fumbling around in a smoke filled house, you'd be surprised how hard it is to find that key and get it into the keyhole. The same is doubly true if you find yourself trying to make an emergency exit because your furnace malfunctioned and you're suffering major effects from carbon monoxide poisoning. There are lots of other similar scenarios, but my personal principle is: Make it hard for unauthorized people to get in, and easy for anyone to get out.

flintknapper wrote: That is something I had not thought of. Hmmmmm...I could easily source that locally and install it myself.

Good idea! I think she would like that.

You can do that easily. The material is available at Lowe's or Home Depot. Make sure to use Lexan - plexiglas is not the same, and doesn't resist impact like lexan does.

When you install it, use finish washers that allow the conical part of the wood screw head to sit down inside the washer. This spreads the force of any impact over a larger area and reduces the chance of the lexan splitting around the screw head.

Excaliber wrote:The security of a door depends on the construction of the door, frame, and lock strike as well as the lock. Most residential construction has the lock strike (the part the bolt or latch goes into in the frame) installed with only 3/4" screws that only engage the door casing. With one solid kick, the wood fractures,the screws fall out, and the door opens.

Looks like the strike hole for the one deadbolt in the new house is good. I'm not even going to waste the time to check the screws: I know at least most of them are likely to be too short, or at least not as long as what I can get at the hardware store, so they'll be getting swapped out soon. The door from the garage into the house and the door from the back porch to the garage will be getting deadbolts as well, and the sliding glass door to the back porch will have to get something.

There are two semi-connected storage closets in the garage (pass-through shelves from one to the other) that currently have no locks, but will be getting some entry locksets since I plan to keep reloading supplies in there, and the shed out back has a nonfunctional lockset that needs to be replaced before I will consider putting anything valuable in it.

This house-securing stuff gets pretty involved pretty quickly.

KD5NRH wrote: The door from the garage into the house and the door from the back porch to the garage will be getting deadbolts as well, and the sliding glass door to the back porch will have to get something.

This house-securing stuff gets pretty involved pretty quickly.

Yes it does, but you only have to do it right once and then you can relax.

Sliding glass doors have to be protected against both horizontal sliding, and being lifted off their tracks. There are adjustment screws that spread the track wheels on each end of the door. Make sure the wheels the door slides on are adjusted so the door cannot be lifted off the track and removed without loosening the track wheel screws. If you don't get enough adjustment range out of the screws, you can also prevent lifting by drilling 3 holes at evenly spaced intervals in the center of the top of the track where the door slides and driving in 3/16" lag bolts just far enough to clear the door. This takes up the vertical clearance at the top and prevents the door from being lifted off the track.

The locking device I prefer to prevent forcing a sliding door open horizontally from the outside is the bar lock made by MAG Engineering. Besides being a very effective mechanical block, it is easy to see from both inside and out that the door is secured.

Excaliber wrote:The locking device I prefer to prevent forcing a sliding door open horizontally from the outside is the bar lock made by MAG Engineering. Besides being a very effective mechanical block, it is easy to see from both inside and out that the door is secured.

Unfortunately, that would only work on this one if I wanted to lock someone inside: the sliding part is outside the fixed part rather than inside. I'm thinking of drilling a couple holes and using removeable steel pins to effectively toenail the whole thing shut. That should protect against anything short of simply breaking the glass, and virtually guarantee that any etry by that door will at least have to be noisy. I'll still do the top screws to keep it harder to defeat when the pins are out, but that tiny little hook on the latch just isn't enough to hold it against much effort, IMO.

In the meantime, I put one of those standalone squealer/chime alarms on it since WalMart had them at 2/$10. It's not much, but there's no easy way to silence it until it's made enough noise to get the attention of anyone inside.

I spent the first bit of downtime at work tonight sharpening chisels, so I can start adjusting strike plates and installing the two new deadbolts on my next non-working day.

KD5NRH wrote:

Excaliber wrote:The locking device I prefer to prevent forcing a sliding door open horizontally from the outside is the bar lock made by MAG Engineering. Besides being a very effective mechanical block, it is easy to see from both inside and out that the door is secured.

Unfortunately, that would only work on this one if I wanted to lock someone inside: the sliding part is outside the fixed part rather than inside. I'm thinking of drilling a couple holes and using removeable steel pins to effectively toenail the whole thing shut. That should protect against anything short of simply breaking the glass, and virtually guarantee that any etry by that door will at least have to be noisy. I'll still do the top screws to keep it harder to defeat when the pins are out, but that tiny little hook on the latch just isn't enough to hold it against much effort, IMO.

In the meantime, I put one of those standalone squealer/chime alarms on it since WalMart had them at 2/$10. It's not much, but there's no easy way to silence it until it's made enough noise to get the attention of anyone inside.

I spent the first bit of downtime at work tonight sharpening chisels, so I can start adjusting strike plates and installing the two new deadbolts on my next non-working day.

Sounds like the carpenters who built your home installed the sliding doors backwards. Drilling and pinning is probably your easiest option, short of taking the doors out and putting them back in right. It should meet the goal of making it time consuming, noisy, and difficult to get into from the outside.

Since you're going to be doing chisel work anyway, I would very highly recommend replacing the existing deadbolt strikes with the reinforced ones. Six or 8 3 inch screws driven into the wall framing and attached to a very rigid heavy duty strike plate will give you a lot more resistance for very little additional effort, and the cost is very low.

Excaliber wrote:Sounds like the carpenters who built your home installed the sliding doors backwards. Drilling and pinning is probably your easiest option, short of taking the doors out and putting them back in right. It should meet the goal of making it time consuming, noisy, and difficult to get into from the outside.

That's pretty much all I'm hoping for; stopping someone from putting a brick through it is too expensive at the moment, so I just want to make sure that we have warning if we're home, and the insurance company can't say we didn't take all reasonable measures to secure it if someone does get in.

Since you're going to be doing chisel work anyway, I would very highly recommend replacing the existing deadbolt strikes with the reinforced ones. Six or 8 3 inch screws driven into the wall framing and attached to a very rigid heavy duty strike plate will give you a lot more resistance for very little additional effort, and the cost is very low.

I picked up a fresh box of 3" construction screws last night, and I'm planning to replace two deadbolts and a locking knobset this weekend. I haven't done the oversized strike plates before, but I've long had a habit of replacing all the short screws with 3-3.5" ones, on the strike plate for security, and on the hinges because it saves me a lot of adjusting and retightening later.