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KC5AV wrote:...if they feel that it will make them, us, or others safer...

That's a good enough answer for me at 3:00 in the morning.

Yes AFTER being disarmed, I did show him both IDs and after a quick glance, handed back my CHL.

Oldgringo wrote:[quote="KC5AV...if they feel that it will make them, us, or others safer...

That's a good enough answer for me at 3:00 in the morning.[/quote]

Exactly my point

mr.72 wrote: There was no aggressive behavior, no other cause to think this person is a criminal.

On key thing that is missing and I dont have the answer to.....and keep in mind....

Who Knows what the caller told 911?
We all know that many many people needlessly blow the truth waaaaay out of line. There is no telling what was said. THEREFOR the LEO had NO IDEA what he was dealing with when he approached me. Do you actually expect him to take me for my word from the start.

LEO......do you have any weapons?
ME......Yes Sir and I also have my CHL.
LEO.....OH....well I am soooo sorry to bother you. Have a great day. You TOLD me you have your CHL so that means it MUST be the truth.

At minimum, 911 was told of a person looking into cars with a flashlight, at 3am, in an area well known for brake ins.


Under THOSE circumstances, I dont have ANY problems with the way the LEO handle the situation.

That is about the only time that I have been disarmed and it did NOT bother me.

Target1911 wrote:Yes AFTER being disarmed, I did show him both IDs and after a quick glance, handed back my CHL.

LEO......do you have any weapons?
ME......Yes Sir and I also have my CHL.
LEO.....OH....well I am soooo sorry to bother you. Have a great day. You TOLD me you have your CHL so that means it MUST be the truth.

At minimum, 911 was told of a person looking into cars with a flashlight, at 3am, in an area well known for brake ins.


Under THOSE circumstances, I dont have ANY problems with the way the LEO handle the situation.

Well, the officer should have asked you for ID FIRST. THEN, when he was presented with your DL and CHL, at that time, he could ask if you were carrying your weapon. Only then would it make any sense to even consider whether you should be disarmed.

You were not in progress of the commission of a crime, you were not behaving suspiciously or aggressively, and quite frankly, you are perfectly within your rights to be in the parking lot at 3:00 in the morning, even if you have a flashlight. This, including the 911 call, is reason for the LEO to ask you to identify yourself (Terry stop), but it is not sufficient to disarm you.

What worries me is that some CHL holders think this is perfectly ok. We are so used to not exercising our rights!

The #1 reason, IMHO, why police officers and even entire police departments will disarm CHL holders every single time regardless of the circumstances is because there is no penalty if they do so without cause. The law is vague, and CHL holders, trying to be the good guy, bend over backwards to be compliant and never call them on the carpet.

Now I'm not saying that arguing with a police officer at 3:00 in the morning about being disarmed is the way to approach this problem. But I can assure you that if I am fully within my rights in the city where I live, and the police stop me and disarm me without cause, even if it is at 3:00AM, the very next thing I am going to do after being rightly released by the officer is walk into the CPPD HQ and file a complaint against the officer. I think we should all do this, every single time we are disarmed without cause.

Now, if you are interceding in a domestic dispute or in the middle of a crime scene when you are stopped, or there is some other legitimate reason for you to be disarmed, then I can see the point. But the police officer simply wants to maintain a monopoly of force during every encounter with citizens and that's why they disarm you.

I read an informative book one time called "A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets", written by an ex-NY state highway patrol officer. He wrote that most of the actions of police officers when they stop a citizen for any reason are governed by two forces: fear and ego. Now of course, the purpose of this book is to instruct you how to manipulate this situation to get you out of a ticket when you are guilty (feed their ego and reduce their fear, you probably will get off with a warning when you are guilty). But when you are guilty of absolutely nothing, then I see no reason to feed a police officer's ego and lay down my rights in order to assuage the officer's unreasonable fear.

Well, now that we know what should have happened in this instance, perhaps others will share their experiences with LEO's in other apartment parking lots at 3:00 AM?

Target1911 wrote:LEO......do you have any weapons?
ME......Yes Sir and I also have my CHL.
LEO.....OH....well I am soooo sorry to bother you. Have a great day. You TOLD me you have your CHL so that means it MUST be the truth.

LEO......do you have any weapons?
CRIMINAL......No Sir
LEO.....OH....well I am soooo sorry to bother you. Have a great day.

I read an informative book one time called "A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets", written by an ex-NY state highway patrol officer. He wrote that most of the actions of police officers when they stop a citizen for any reason are governed by two forces: fear and ego. Now of course, the purpose of this book is to instruct you how to manipulate this situation to get you out of a ticket when you are guilty (feed their ego and reduce their fear, you probably will get off with a warning when you are guilty). But when you are guilty of absolutely nothing, then I see no reason to feed a police officer's ego and lay down my rights in order to assuage the officer's unreasonable fear.

Seems to me that the real issue is not so much that our rights as CHL holders are being abused when we are disarmed, the issue is EGO. (Feeding the EGO of the officer and a knock to the ego of the CHL holder) Putting myself in that officers same position I would most likely have disarmed the CHL holder too given the time of night and circumstance. I think we need to concentrate on the situations that are really an abuse of our right and not a bruise to the ego. IMHO