First one! (updated with range results!)

[NcongruNt]

Oh wow, Montana Gold is considerably cheaper, and includes shipping with their price.

124 grain FMJ for $99/1000 shipped is a very nice price compared to what I've seen recently.

The Zero bullets were even cheaper, but I don't know how I feel about that conical FMJ. In JHP they look a lot like XTP bullets. It looks like shipping will be tacked on later, upping the cost, so I may try out the Montana Gold first.

[ghostrider]

you're shooting a hipower; I haven't found a bullet that a modern hipower won't feed. Either the Montana or Zero will do fine.

[NcongruNt]

you're shooting a hipower; I haven't found a bullet that a modern hipower won't feed. Either the Montana or Zero will do fine.

Well, it's not the feeding that concerns me, it's getting a load with correct OAL for that conical bullet. I had a tough enough time getting a proper XTP OAL, and for my remington JHP bullets, I had to compare them in size to my GDHP carry stuff to get a proper length. Luckily, the GDHP and the Remington JHP 124 grain bullets are the same length, so I can use the GDHP loads Alliant has for Blue Dot.

I don't know where I'd find a correct OAL for a conical bullet like that. I suppose I could just measure the difference between it and a known load and calculate the difference so that seating depth is the same and go from there, but I'd rather start with fewer unknowns this early on.

Speaking of the Alliant loads....

Here's the recipe they have up on their site:

OAL: 1.12"
Powder: Blue Dot
Charge Weight (grains): 7.9
FPS: 1238

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... 26&bdid=34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, the charge they list, I'm assuming that's the maximum? The books I have all list a range of loads and their velocities, but the Alliant site only shows one charge. I've heard that when starting out, you take the max load and subtract 10% (around 7.1 grains, in this case), then work it up from there.

I also noticed that I am getting higher velocities than ghostrider's recipe for his G17, even though he's at 7.8 grains and I'm only at 7.5. I can only assume that since Blue Dot is a slower-burning powder, the extra barrel length is what accounts for this. Then again, looking at the specs, the G17 barrel is 4.5 inches, giving me only 1/4 inch more barrel. Could the hexagonal rifling in the G17 account for this? Perhaps it's the Federal primers than I'm using?

I can see how reloading is both an art and science, with so many variables to account for. If only I had a backyard range where I could tinker with loads and fire them in quick succession, this would take a lot less time. One day, perhaps.

[NcongruNt]

Just as an additional observation, while I think about it...

We discussed earlier about Hornady's load data and OAL for 124 grain XTP being 1.06" while limiting the max load in Blue dot to 6.6 grains. While this is probably fine for the load they're using, it's a bit anemic as a max load. That OAL may be correct for the pressures they're generating, but they're really not putting a lot of powder in that charge, and their velocities aren't anywhere near what I would think a max load recipe would be at. It's more comparable to WWB, which is certainly nowhere near a hot load.

Getting a load with an XTP bullet that's a little more "normal", the OAL needs to be considerably longer to avoid overpressure. I compared an XTP and a GDHP last night, and the XTP is indeed a longer bullet (like I suspected earlier in this thread). Considering the Alliant recipe puts OAL for the GDHP at 1.12", I think the 1.125" I chose for my first load was good decision.

[ghostrider]

> I don't know where I'd find a correct OAL for a conical bullet like that.
Send me a link to exactly which bullet you're talking about & I'll see if its one of the ones I've loaded. If it is, I'll send you my OAL info.


>he Alliant site only shows one charge.

yes. In this case (and any data that only gives 1 number) assume maximum and start at least 10% below that. However, in the case of Alliant - just send them an email and ask; They tend to be really good about answering questions or providing additional data.


>I also noticed that I am getting higher velocities than ghostrider's recipe for his G17, even though he's at
>7.8 grains and I'm only at 7.5. I can only assume that since Blue Dot is a slower-burning powder, the extra
>barrel length is what accounts for this. Then again, looking at the specs, the G17 barrel is 4.5 inches, giving
>me only 1/4 inch more barrel. Could the hexagonal rifling in the G17 account for this? Perhaps it's the Federal
>primers than I'm using?

Insufficient data to draw any real conclusions. Here are some of the variables at work in this 'equation':
# my load data is from a dillon progressive which may not match exactly with your measurements (ie. my 7.8gr could be 7.6 if you were loading it)
# outside temperature may have been different
# different guns (even 2 different hipowers could conceivably give noticeably different results)
# I may have chrono'd using the ported barrel in the G17 which would cause velocity loss
# we may not have the same brand of chronographs
# I have a different batch of Blue Dot than you do
# I didn't use federal primers
# I may have used different bullets

[ghostrider]

We discussed earlier about Hornady's load data and OAL for 124 grain XTP being 1.06" while limiting the max load in Blue dot to 6.6 grains. While this is probably fine for the load they're using, it's a bit anemic as a max load. That OAL may be correct for the pressures they're generating, but they're really not putting a lot of powder in that charge, and their velocities aren't anywhere near what I would think a max load recipe would be at. It's more comparable to WWB, which is certainly nowhere near a hot load..

yep. Hornady's data "tends" to be on the light side, but not always. This is why I always look for a recommend multiple sources of data.

Getting a load with an XTP bullet that's a little more "normal", the OAL needs to be considerably longer to avoid overpressure. I compared an XTP and a GDHP last night, and the XTP is indeed a longer bullet (like I suspected earlier in this thread). Considering the Alliant recipe puts OAL for the GDHP at 1.12", I think the 1.125" I chose for my first load was good decision.

I think that is a good target OAL, but keep in mind there are a lot of other variables (see previous post) and the real issue is to make sure the bullet is not seated too deeply, and the shape of the bullet may also affect how deep it can go based on where you can taper crimp it. For a more dramatic example, if you can find a picture of a Remington Golden Sabre bullet (try http://www.midwayusa.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) you can see there is a 'step' in the side of the bullet where the diameter narrows. You have to be careful not to push this bullet too deep and try to crimp too close to that 'step'.

OTOH, once you've had some experience, you'll find this becomes less of an issue (as long as you're not loading max loads). I will load 2 or 3 different bullets (Zero 147gr, XTP 147gr, maybe Montana Gold 124gr) with out adjusting the seating die at all (obviously I adjust the powder charge), once I have a combination that works.

[NcongruNt]

>he Alliant site only shows one charge.

yes. In this case (and any data that only gives 1 number) assume maximum and start at least 10% below that. However, in the case of Alliant - just send them an email and ask; They tend to be really good about answering questions or providing additional data.


>I also noticed that I am getting higher velocities than ghostrider's recipe for his G17, even though he's at
>7.8 grains and I'm only at 7.5. I can only assume that since Blue Dot is a slower-burning powder, the extra
>barrel length is what accounts for this. Then again, looking at the specs, the G17 barrel is 4.5 inches, giving
>me only 1/4 inch more barrel. Could the hexagonal rifling in the G17 account for this? Perhaps it's the Federal
>primers than I'm using?

Insufficient data to draw any real conclusions. Here are some of the variables at work in this 'equation':
# my load data is from a dillon progressive which may not match exactly with your measurements (ie. my 7.8gr could be 7.6 if you were loading it)
# outside temperature may have been different
# different guns (even 2 different hipowers could conceivably give noticeably different results)
# I may have chrono'd using the ported barrel in the G17 which would cause velocity loss
# we may not have the same brand of chronographs
# I have a different batch of Blue Dot than you do
# I didn't use federal primers
# I may have used different bullets

I suspect it may be the chronograph. I'm not really sure how to check it, other than comparing against another. If it's off by a significant amount, though, I'd certainly like to get it back to the manufacturer and get that corrected.

I worked up a bunch of test loads from the Alliant recipe posted earlier. I put together 7 sets of 5 rounds , differing in 0.1 grains each step. I started at 7.1 and ended at 7.7. I used my remington JHP bullets that I had that match the dimensions of the GDHP.

I'll try them out for speed and accuracy and see what I come up with.