TexasCHLforum.com

ericlw wrote:
and cops never drive dangerously?

I have seen this quite often and it ticks me off...

I've almost considered videotaping LEOs as they drive and then producing the footage when they pull me over for driving like they do. I used to live a block from SMPD and I rarely if ever saw them use blinkers. Don't get me started on how often I'd see them running red lights just because they can. As in, they turned off their sirens and then pulled into Subway and ate afterward, in case anyone was going to ask, "How do you know there wasn't an emergency?"

Fangs wrote:. As in, they turned off their sirens and then pulled into Subway and ate afterward, in case anyone was going to ask, "How do you know there wasn't an emergency?"

Even in an emergency going 70 mph in 30 mph is a little excessive to me and swerving between cars.

Blinkers, I never see those get used either.

Fangs wrote:I've almost considered videotaping LEOs as they drive and then producing the footage when they pull me over for driving like they do. I used to live a block from SMPD and I rarely if ever saw them use blinkers. Don't get me started on how often I'd see them running red lights just because they can. As in, they turned off their sirens and then pulled into Subway and ate afterward, in case anyone was going to ask, "How do you know there wasn't an emergency?"

HEE HEE!!! Oh, this reminds me of a story! When I was living in The Colony a couple of years ago, I once saw a LEO pull up to a stop light and stop. Then he turned his lights on and drove through the red light and then turned in to a convenience store parking lot just on the other side of the intersection. I happened to be going to the same place and got there after the light turned green. Turns out apparently his thirst for a 20oz coke was the emergency.

handog wrote:
...I'm not anti-LEO but this stop comes a little too close to a civil rights violation IMO. 5 MPH over? Give me a break. You try going the speed limit for one day...

Truisms of life:

1) Drink > drunk
1A) No drink > no drunk


2) speed > ticket
2A) No speed > no ticket

3) Little things can matter. The Challenger was lost because the ambient temperature at take-off was 1-2 degrees lower than the failed gasket had been tested to. That small difference caused the gasket to harden, thus not allowing it to fully seal and to separate the propulsion elements.

4) The "need for speed" and the "need to lead" that seems to be so ingrained into our (male) species' psyche has probably been the single highest cause of traffic accidents and deaths since highways have existed.

Fangs wrote:I've almost considered videotaping LEOs as they drive and then producing the footage when they pull me over for driving like they do.

A long time ago, I used to not have a problem writing people tickets for driving like I did. I figured I got cited for most of it when i was not a cop or when I was off duty (yes, I have gotten tickets when off duty) and I knew I could get the ticket when I drove that way. I saw getting caught as being fair since I had gotten away with it so much and figured they had too.

As I got older, two amazing things happened. First, my driving actually improved. i was no longer in as much of a hurry to get anywhere and learned to wake up a little earlier to get to work. Second, I realized that even if I knew I could get a ticket, it really was hypocritical to write people tickets for driving the way I did.

So, I have not written a ticket in at least 15 years (and probably closer to 20) unless I honestly felt the driver was driving worse than I did. really. And I have taught that as a guideline to cops for at least the last 10 years too. I found it amazing how many of the older cops would agree with me and how many of the younger cops would laugh but think about it. Most of them will probably switch in a few years also.

I used to live a block from SMPD and I rarely if ever saw them use blinkers. Don't get me started on how often I'd see them running red lights just because they can. As in, they turned off their sirens and then pulled into Subway and ate afterward, in case anyone was going to ask, "How do you know there wasn't an emergency?"

I know it does sound bad, but there still could have been an emergency. I have lost count of the number of times I started to go to an emergency call, only to be canceled by someone else getting there. It happens. Yeah, in a larger department than SM it will probably happen more often, but it has even happened in Luling. Especially in the small towns, it happens because the cops go to almost everything. In Luling, I responded to every emergency call no matter who it was for. We went to fire calls because we could get there first and we knew they would need traffic control, we went to EMS calls because we could get there first and usually help (in the strong back and weak mind category of help - some people are hard to lift on a gurney), we went to the police calls obviously, and we even went to the emergency water and electric calls. Again, we could get there first most of the time. We usually beat the others to the call because we were the ones already in cars in motion. We could almost always verify if they were truly needed and how badly. Mid-sized towns like San Marcos are probably the best for cops being cops and you should see this less there.

But if you do see it, feel free to call the department and complain. Get the car number painted on teh side of the car so the chief can identify the driver and let them know what he did wrong. Most chiefs worry about their people and the reputation they get. I know Chief Williams would take action in San Marcos over this. He is a pretty good chief and interested in both the people and his officers.

When I was on day shift we are more intentional about our driving so as to set an example to the public and be above reproach. At 4am it is still a concern, but there is nobody on the roads - many of our calls that my team gets between 6pm and 6am are "hotter" in nature as well. That said, if I'm not going to back someone up or going to a disturbance of some sort, I don't see a reason to press the issue.


The seatbelt one - I RARELY wear a seatbelt in a patrol car. The thing is one big rolling target and I can't feel it across my chest as a reminder that it is on (vest) - which can be REAL BAD if you all of a sudden decide you need to bail out of your rolling target and cant feel that your seatbelt is still on. If I'm at highway speeds or running code across the city to something hot I'll throw it on because of all the collisions occurring during emergency vehicle operations.

I also won't write it unless it's a child in no car seat or something stupid like that.

gigag04 wrote:The seatbelt one - I RARELY wear a seatbelt in a patrol car. The thing is one big rolling target and I can't feel it across my chest as a reminder that it is on (vest) - which can be REAL BAD if you all of a sudden decide you need to bail out of your rolling target and cant feel that your seatbelt is still on.

Please post your full name, department and badge number with this statement to make it easier for the victims to find on Google when you lose control of the car due to not being able to stay in your seat.

Put the belt on every time and you won't need a reminder that it's on anymore than you need to look down the barrel of your gun to see if a round is chambered when you need it.

"When you're a lawman and you're dealing with people,you do a whole lot better if you go not so much by the book but by the heart."


ANDY TAYLOR
The Andy Griffith Show

I could be mistaken here, but my impression is that the STATE LAW says, ALL passengers in motor vehicles MUST wear
seat belts. Front seat, back seat, child, adult, etc. I am not aware of any exemption for LEO even if they are smarter, safer, better drivers than all the rest of us.

gigag04 wrote:The seatbelt one - I RARELY wear a seatbelt in a patrol car.

*Naughty naughty

“The average police officer thinks most cops get killed by felons, and that's not true. Cops are getting killed in traffic accidents,” said Richard Ashton, who studies traffic safety for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. “Officers don't think it can happen to them.”

*Emphasizing the power of public perception could also make a difference. How can officers write tickets for seat belt violations if they're not buckled up themselves?

“You can't uphold the law if you're not wearing them,” said Houston Police officer Joe Sanchez, who said he always wears a seat belt.

KD5NRH wrote:

gigag04 wrote:The seatbelt one - I RARELY wear a seatbelt in a patrol car. The thing is one big rolling target and I can't feel it across my chest as a reminder that it is on (vest) - which can be REAL BAD if you all of a sudden decide you need to bail out of your rolling target and cant feel that your seatbelt is still on.

Please post your full name, department and badge number with this statement to make it easier for the victims to find on Google when you lose control of the car due to not being able to stay in your seat.

Put the belt on every time and you won't need a reminder that it's on anymore than you need to look down the barrel of your gun to see if a round is chambered when you need it.

I won't be posting any of that.

As you didn't post it, I assume you missed the bottom half of my post where I said I will put it on if I'm rolling to something hot. Most of my time on night shift is spent sneaking around blacked out through subdivisions, or parked watching stop signs/lights. I am fully aware of the risks of collision while driving a patrol car.

handog wrote:hasizing the power of public perception could also make a difference. How can officers write tickets for seat belt violations if they're not buckled up themselves?

You also missed my statement where I said I don't write for it I guess? On days, I and most other day shift officers wear our seatbelts...you are driving in traffic more, and more visible. At night...it's a different ball game..you're not driving as much. Like I said earlier in the post...my driving consists of rolling blacked out through a neighborhoods and apartment complexes at 5 mph with the windows down. Or I'm stationary - in which case I definitely don't stay fastened to the car.

Feel free to form your own opinions (and even share them) but until you've been there and done that...they are opinions from outsiders. There are a wide array of opinions within the LE community and preferences vary at the officer level - it is their choice to decide which tactics they chose to employ.


Maybe a mod can split this off into a seperate thread.

It's not always your speed - it's also the speed of the *other* car that hits you...a seat belt prevents you from becoming a projectile, even at low speeds. One of my past hobbies was offroading/Jeeping - let me tell you, a seat belt is needed, even at idle speeds. I can't begin to count the number of rollovers/flops that I've had, some on purpose, some accidental. If it can go wrong, it will. Wear your safety-restraint device, don't even bother trying to argue your way out of it...man up, admit it, wear it, move on.

gigag04 wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

gigag04 wrote:The seatbelt one - I RARELY wear a seatbelt in a patrol car. The thing is one big rolling target and I can't feel it across my chest as a reminder that it is on (vest) - which can be REAL BAD if you all of a sudden decide you need to bail out of your rolling target and cant feel that your seatbelt is still on.

Please post your full name, department and badge number with this statement to make it easier for the victims to find on Google when you lose control of the car due to not being able to stay in your seat.

Put the belt on every time and you won't need a reminder that it's on anymore than you need to look down the barrel of your gun to see if a round is chambered when you need it.

I won't be posting any of that.

As you didn't post it, I assume you missed the bottom half of my post where I said I will put it on if I'm rolling to something hot. Most of my time on night shift is spent sneaking around blacked out through subdivisions, or parked watching stop signs/lights. I am fully aware of the risks of collision while driving a patrol car.

handog wrote:hasizing the power of public perception could also make a difference. How can officers write tickets for seat belt violations if they're not buckled up themselves?

You also missed my statement where I said I don't write for it I guess? On days, I and most other day shift officers wear our seatbelts...you are driving in traffic more, and more visible. At night...it's a different ball game..you're not driving as much. Like I said earlier in the post...my driving consists of rolling blacked out through a neighborhoods and apartment complexes at 5 mph with the windows down. Or I'm stationary - in which case I definitely don't stay fastened to the car.

Feel free to form your own opinions (and even share them) but until you've been there and done that...they are opinions from outsiders. There are a wide array of opinions within the LE community and preferences vary at the officer level - it is their choice to decide which tactics they chose to employ.


Maybe a mod can split this off into a seperate thread.

I don't want to be adversarial, but wouldn't a judge say that you were indeed violating the law?

timdsmith72 wrote: HEE HEE!!! Oh, this reminds me of a story! When I was living in The Colony a couple of years ago, I once saw a LEO pull up to a stop light and stop. Then he turned his lights on and drove through the red light and then turned in to a convenience store parking lot just on the other side of the intersection. I happened to be going to the same place and got there after the light turned green. Turns out apparently his thirst for a 20oz coke was the emergency.

I saw something similar to this the other morning on my way into work (6:15AM).

I was waiting at a light, Sheriff pulls up to the other direction, stops, looks both ways, then blows the light. (The side streets were still green, hence how I knew he didn't have it)

He then pulls into a fast food place on the other side of it.

No lights or sirens were used at all.

I have seen this at least a dozen times by the Sheriff's department in my neighborhood. Sometimes they throw on their lights, sometimes they don't. It occurs most often at nighttime. Also, their lack of usage of turn signals, and excessive speed also bothers me. I'd understand if they were running hot, but 90% of the time, there is no indication that they are doing so.