TexasCHLforum.com

4t5 wrote:To a cop like that, we are all just potential criminals.

Come and take it!

That will go a long way toward improving understanding between LEOs and CHLs.

There are a LOT of shades of gray here which you're failing to take into consideration... ...Like maybe he's a good cop who has simply had a lot of experiences with people with bad attitudes. I forget who it was who said words to the effect of, "Is this the hill you are prepared to die on?"

In that spirit, I would probably reply with "Officer, I'd rather not draw my weapon in public like this, but if you insist, I would prefer to draw it, set it on the seat of my car, and then step back to a safe distance before you pick it up. I would also prefer to unload it while doing so." If the officer is dumb enough not to see his/her own self-interest in that offer, then I would comply as requested, and follow with a letter to his/her commander detailing the stop, my reply, and the officers actions, with an explanation of how the officer had behaved in an unsafe manner with regard to my firearm, and asking that the officer be notified (not reprimanded) of a better way to do things. An officer who has been made aware that the civilian was concerned about his/her safety as well as the citizen's own, might be a little more gracious in the future to CHL holders.

You catch more bees with honey.

like i said, "most" and if you think this is doing a bad job (assuming you are the one stopped), why instigate any further potential problems.
Maybe he sees that 1 of your license plates lights are now out, or you have license plate frame just a hair to close to cover up "Texas" on the plate, Just no reason to push it, at least for me.

4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you. I believe it is not only best but appropriate to be courteous to LEOs. I don't always think highly of some of their procedures but I know that they have basically a thankless job. It costs the public very little to be courteous.

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you. I believe it is not only best but appropriate to be courteous to LEOs. I don't always think highly of some of their procedures but I know that they have basically a thankless job. It costs the public very little to be courteous.

I agree 100%. Yes, there are some police officers out there who are jerks...but there are jerks in every profession. They are human just like we are, and they have good days and bad days and deal with a LOT of rudeness while trying to remain calm, polite, and professional. I am a firm believer in being respectful and polite, and cooperating when reasonable as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights. I have no problem with telling an officer if I'm armed. If an officer wants to disarm me, I would cooperate (since it's their right under the law), but I would probably ask him why out of curiosity. If an officer wants to search my vehicle without a warrant or probable cause, I would probably draw the line there, but I wouldn't be a jerk about it. I would make it clear that I was objecting on a matter of principle, not because I had anything to hide.

It's been my experience that if you give the police a hard time, they'll give you one right back. A little bit of respect and decency goes a long way.

CompVest wrote:I don't always think highly of some of their procedures but I know that they have basically a thankless job. It costs the public very little to be courteous.

My point exactly, but in fewer words! How do you do it?

hoot wrote:I agree with everything said above, but I am waiting for somebody to say <quote> Now they can add your name and number to their police database <endquote> I also agree that you should ask permission to eject the magazine before handing it over.
Hoot

Why? The law doesn't say it has to be loaded when you hand it to him. From what I've seen of a lot of LEO gunhandling skills, I would turn away from him and unload it first for MY safety.. Besides, I'm probably already on the brown shirt watch list, so what does it matter?

Bob Landry wrote:Why? The law doesn't say it has to be loaded when you hand it to him. From what I've seen of a lot of LEO gunhandling skills, I would turn away from him and unload it first for MY safety.. Besides, I'm probably already on the brown shirt watch list, so what does it matter?

If you plan to do this, move very slowly and tell the officer what you're doing. Otherwise, a nervous LEO just might ventilate you and be no-billed by the grand jury. Reference the case of the supposed CIA operative shot by Houston PD.

Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

camlott wrote:

I really don't think I want an officer removing my pistol from my Smart Carry...

Don't Lie

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

For the most part you're exactly right OG...I can't remember when I got my last ticket but that's not saying I didn't get mine and your share of them early on in life....geeeze, for the first half of my life I thought I was put here to stretch the limits, boundaries, and authority figures...and I did. But what I wanted to say is that the last time I was stopped was for not having a front license plate, well I did have one but I must have got into some brush on the ranch which broke it off and deposited in up in the cowling...anyway it was before my CHL so that wasn't an issue but I did have to show my DL even though I didn't even get a warning much less a ticket. But it could have been an issue if I would have had my CHL and had I been carrying My point is, like you, I do my best to stay within the law but even with that it doesn't always prevent LEO contact and that always leaves the door open.

Years ago I decided I was getting too old and tired to keep pushing the limits so if I get stopped I'll gladly let them hold my weapon, run my drivers license, and my serial numbers, etc. while I'm doing my best to be patient, kind, and compliant. I know deep down inside most of them are just trying to earn a living while doing their job and make it through the day...just like I am.

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

“only the guilty need fear”

4t5 wrote:There is a legal requirement to provide your CHL when presenting your TXDL. Since there is no legal requirement to inform the LEO whether or not you are armed, the next time I get pulled over, I might try this: After handing over TXDL, CHL, and ins card, if the officer asks if I am armed, I'll just say "I'm not answering any questions, everything that you need to know is on the documents that I just handed to you." What is he going to do, cuff and search me for not answering his question, which would be illegal? Arrest me? For what?

Cops just love "attitude" like yours. Then I supposed you'd
complain that you got a speeding ticket instead of a verbal warning.

If a LEO chooses to disarm you during a stop, it is fully documented in
Texas law that he may do so. You may feel it's not necessary, but it
IS lawful.

By displaying your arrogant attitude about not answering if
you have a gun, this would put up a LEO's radar that you are the type
of person who needs further scrutiny, including disarming.

Your response to him would result in the disarming that you don't like.

I'm just sayin....

SIA

Hands on the Wheel, Smile. Engine off, Radio off. "Yes Officer" "No Officer" let officer know if I need to take hands off wheel. Other than that, I dont give him no lip, I dont offer anything other than a smile a "Good day"
I've been asked for my car to be searched, declined nicely
Been told Point Blank that I had been Smoking Pot, told him nicely "I'm sorry Officer, you are mistaken."
Been dressed down for my License plate holder "Covering" license plate. Told officer if I didnt have it on their would that solve problem? He said "Yeah but how you gonna make it smaller?!" I just ripped the thing off and threw it away in front of him. All whole being polite.
When i got my 1 Speeding ticket the officer thanked me for being so polite. Told him "Be Safe, have a good day"
I dont give them a problem, but I wont bend over either.
Remember you can always sue later.

If an officer ever requests that I disarm, I will very politely ask him if he feels it's necessary to ensure his, my, or someone else's safety. Then I will comply regardless of the answer. However, if he says no, I like to think I'll be in a very good position to (at a later date) show that he was overstepping his boundaries.

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

Nothing in there about running serial numbers, nor about SOP, nor about departmental policy.