Texas Town on High Alert

[Dragonfighter]

Why would you fire on a chopper?

In his scenario or ever? In the scenario he gave, not much of a reason. In the extremely unlikely scenario where a governmental attack on the citizenry, a private or other hostile invasion were to take place, to bring her down if I could.

[ScottDLS]

Why would you fire on a chopper?

In his scenario or ever? In the scenario he gave, not much of a reason. In the extremely unlikely scenario where a governmental attack on the citizenry, a private or other hostile invasion were to take place, to bring her down if I could.

There are a number of legitimate reasons for Mexican military aircraft to fly in US airspace with permission. As a generally friendly government, we train them and cooperate on issues like drug smuggling and terrorism. Of course, there is no excuse for them to illegally violate our airspace with military aircraft.

Mexico also likes to claim that US gun laws result in significant arms trafficking across their borders and supposedly we are the armory for their drug gangs and leftist guerrilla's. This is ridiculous on it's face, for a number of reasons.

- It is a (major) violation of US federal law to export weapons without license. Just like it's against the law for the "peasants" in Mexico to have guns. Doesn't seem like either law is having much effect...

- The "US made" weapons that the Mexican government seems to keep coming up with, are fully automatic, military issue, and other items that are not legally available to US citizens for private purchase. Also, they often seem to trace to original sale to the Mexican government, their subdivisions, or other Latin American countries.

- Hard to believe that the Colombian or Mexican drug gangs are getting illegal alien landscapers and construction workers to buy their rocket launchers from Joe's Redneck Gunstore in Dallas using a forged TXDL, or using the dreaded "gun show loophole".

On a side note, if you like military/police/spy fiction type novels of the W.E.B. Griffin or Tom Clancy style, there's a good "Mexican Border Incident" type novel by Dale Brown that has a lot of the elements of this discussion... Edge of Battle. It isn't high literature, but I'm half way through and kind of fun.


-Scott

[chabouk]

I don't know that $92.8 million dollars in Blackhawk sales to Mexico is exactly "giving it to them" and everybody, even the feds have to pay for fuel at civilian airports.

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Before that, Mexico had purchased six Blackhawks. At $14 million apiece (2008 price according to Wikipedia), that's $84 million. If we sold them for $92.8 million total, that's less than $9 million for the spare parts, tools, manuals and training that are usually part of such deals. Sounds like we probably cut them a discount.

[boomerang]

- The "US made" weapons that the Mexican government seems to keep coming up with, are fully automatic, military issue, and other items that are not legally available to US citizens for private purchase. Also, they often seem to trace to original sale to the Mexican government, their subdivisions, or other Latin American countries.

Many of them are manufactured by US companies, so there's at least a grain of truth buried in the mountain of lies. That's more than we usually get from Barry, Hillary and Nancy.

[karder]

karder:

Did you say that you've switched your carry piece from
your Colt 1911 to a higher round capacity HK, due to the current
problems?

SIA

Sad to say, but yes. I have (temporarily I hope) switched to a USP .40 for the 10 round magazine. I carry 3 reloads. I am not a big believer in huge round capacity for normal self-defense situations as I think one or two well placed shots will be enough, however, I am not preparing for normal street crime. The majority of hits in Juarez and several in El Paso have involved 3-10 shooters and dozens of rounds fired. I think that the H&K is a better tool in this specific situation.

I am not in law enforcement or security but I work in an industry which has been heavily targeted in Mexico and we have been put on alert by the police here. We have had several security reviews by EPPD and all the CHLers were encouraged (off the record of course) to move to higher capacity pistols. We were given the recommendation of Glock 17s by our officer. A couple of the guys here have those and have started carrying them instead of their compacts and sub-compacts. I don't own one of those and the H&K is the closest I have. On the weekend, I switch back to my 1911 as the H&K is pretty wide and a little uncomfortable for me to carry casually. I think my risk is quite a bit less away from work. I am looking at a FN five-seven and might make that purchase this weekend.

[SQLGeek]

I wonder how long before we have to see the citizens of El Paso forming armed posses? It infuriates me to no end that the Federal government refuses to perform one of its most basic functions: the defense of its own citizens from foreign threats.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

karder:
What is your rationale to buy an FN 5-7? Do you like
the 20 + 1 capability? Do you think the 5.7 x 28 MM
rounds is a good one?

Since you need to have a weapon with a higher round
count, how about a double stack Para Ordnance 1911?
It's a 14 + 1 in .45.

On the other hand, for the highest round count of which
I am aware, if you get the right model(s) of Glock, you can
use the 33 round mags.

If you think you might have to penetrate BG car doors,
how about a .357 Magnum or .357 Sig of some kind?

I'm just trying to throw a few ideas out to you.

Happy shopping whatever you get.

SIA

[karder]

karder:
What is your rationale to buy an FN 5-7? Do you like
the 20 + 1 capability? Do you think the 5.7 x 28 MM
rounds is a good one?

Since you need to have a weapon with a higher round
count, how about a double stack Para Ordnance 1911?
It's a 14 + 1 in .45.

On the other hand, for the highest round count of which
I am aware, if you get the right model(s) of Glock, you can
use the 33 round mags.

If you think you might have to penetrate BG car doors,
how about a .357 Magnum or .357 Sig of some kind?

I'm just trying to throw a few ideas out to you.

Happy shopping whatever you get.

SIA

All very good choices, especially the Glocks. I don't see the Five-seven being a long term carry, as I think that there are better choices for standard self-defense situations and the sheer size of it makes it cumbersome for CC. The appeal of the Five-seven in our current border situation are:

a) high capacity
b) very soft recoil (this is paramount for quick fire against multiple targets)
c) high profile sights
d) reliability
e) flat trajectory, accurate round

There are a number handguns that have these same features, but the Five-seven brings them together very well. When things calm down, I will revert to a more practical carry (my 1911 )

Trust me, there is no one in this area who wants a confrontation with Cartel members. If I ever draw and fire it will be because my truck has been disabled. 1 or 2 guys with pistols versus 5-10 guys with ak-47s is not good odds. Strong home and business security measures and good evasive driving techniques are the key to keeping out and getting out of trouble. If I have to drawn a weapon, I need something I can fire fast and accurately while back-peddling. At least that is my logic.


Interestingly, I saw a news report where, I believe it was an FBI spokesman but I can't remember for sure, said the the Five-seven is the hottest pistol on the market in the border area. Supposedly they can be sold illegally in Mexico for upwards of $3000. Cartel enforcers are favoring them, with 10mm glocks and 9mm anything else as the next two choices.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

karder:
Thanks for the response.

Keep us posted here on El Paso doin's.

SIA

[Dragonfighter]

I don't know that $92.8 million dollars in Blackhawk sales to Mexico is exactly "giving it to them" and everybody, even the feds have to pay for fuel at civilian airports.

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Before that, Mexico had purchased six Blackhawks. At $14 million apiece (2008 price according to Wikipedia), that's $84 million. If we sold them for $92.8 million total, that's less than $9 million for the spare parts, tools, manuals and training that are usually part of such deals. Sounds like we probably cut them a discount.

That's pretty steep, US Army procurement places the run of the mill H-60 Blackhawk at $5.2 million and the Pavehawk (Ground mapping radar, IHADS, TVO and LANTIRN as well as missile systems) at $10.5 million...the one pictured looks pretty stock. I am sure that per unit costs adjust based on total projections for purchases, support contracts and what not. Speaking of missiles, it is possible for a Pavehawk to carry more in ordinance than the airframe is worth .

Compare to the AB-412 at just over $10.2 million, well equipped and the B-407 at around $7 million and Sikorsky starts looking pretty good for para-military apps.

Of course GAO and Bell may not be as reliable as Wikipedia.

This of course is aside from the point. Karder has every reason to be very concerned and he and his neighbors need to be alert and prepared. There is one variation to his scenario that should be considered, remote as it may be, that a Federales' helicopter is stolen. No telling when we'd hear about it from the Mexican government; the first indication is when it comes sneaking onto your ranch.

[juggernaut]

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Based on the results, it looks like the "i" is in the wrong place.

[Fangs]

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Based on the results, it looks like the "i" is in the wrong place.

[chabouk]

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Based on the results, it looks like the "i" is in the wrong place.

I like word play, but I'm not seeing what you guys are laughing at. Enlightenment, please?

Now, I definitely see that it's more of a "mordita initiative". The U.S. generally has two foreign policy plans: bribe them, or bomb them.

[pbwalker]

We're "giving" them the Merida Initiative.

Based on the results, it looks like the "i" is in the wrong place.

I like word play, but I'm not seeing what you guys are laughing at. Enlightenment, please?

Now, I definitely see that it's more of a "mordita initiative". The U.S. generally has two foreign policy plans: bribe them, or bomb them.

Move the 'i' right after the 'm' and then google it. :)

[LarryH]

I guess you mean "Miranda"?