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WildBill wrote:

Frost wrote:Allowed, ha, they are trained to lie.

So why is it against the law to lie to the police?

It isn't, except for in specific cases.

If a cop walks up to you with no reason (just random selection of people walking down the street) and asks you if you have a gun, there is no law saying you have to answer him at all, let alone answer him honestly.

There are only two times it is illegal to lie to the police. The first has already been posted (can't lie about who you are if you are under arrest, a suspect, or a witness). The second is that you cannot lie about something that is material to a legal investigation the police are conducting. You cannot be forced to answer then, but you cannot lie.

Unfortunately, the flip side is also true, and worse. There is no law requiring the police to tell you the truth at any time other than related to a trial. They cannot lie under discovery or on the stand.

As for the request for a citation, think about it. Our laws are based on the principle that anything not forbidden is permitted. I cannot prove a negative, but the request for a citation that they are forbidden does answer the question. Furthermore, we all know cops can lie. What else is an undercover operation but a lie? And we are all aware of that.

Know a guy from Ireland, he has a whole rant about how police shouldn't be able to lie for any reason, its amusing in its uninformed way.

So many opinions. Just because the police can lie doesn't mean they do and doesn't mean its justified to go off stating that LEO have gotten bad here lately and are liars. Second, unfortunately like any and every other profession there are bad apples that get most of the media attention. LEO get the laws confused, or misunderstood when they are out there enforcing them. Just like some bend it for their benefit. How do you expect them to catch some of the bad guys if they were to have to tell the truth all the time? At times its hard for them to catch the BG the way it is now. The average citizen would be surprised at the amount of information that LEO must learn, remember, and apply. Im a cadet now, and I have learned alot that I didn't know until the academy. Take a citizen on patrol course and you'll get a taste of the legal side of the world.

Y2bad4u wrote:So many opinions. Just because the police can lie doesn't mean they do and doesn't mean its justified to go off stating that LEO have gotten bad here lately and are liars. Second, unfortunately like any and every other profession there are bad apples that get most of the media attention. LEO get the laws confused, or misunderstood when they are out there enforcing them. Just like some bend it for their benefit. How do you expect them to catch some of the bad guys if they were to have to tell the truth all the time? At times its hard for them to catch the BG the way it is now. The average citizen would be surprised at the amount of information that LEO must learn, remember, and apply. Im a cadet now, and I have learned alot that I didn't know until the academy. Take a citizen on patrol course and you'll get a taste of the legal side of the world.

They should make an iPad app for police to look up laws

marksiwel wrote:They should make an iPad app for police to look up laws

It won't work until the 3G version is released.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

marksiwel wrote:They should make an iPad app for police to look up laws

It won't work until the 3G version is released.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R706isyDrqI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

marksiwel wrote:

Y2bad4u wrote:So many opinions. Just because the police can lie doesn't mean they do and doesn't mean its justified to go off stating that LEO have gotten bad here lately and are liars. Second, unfortunately like any and every other profession there are bad apples that get most of the media attention. LEO get the laws confused, or misunderstood when they are out there enforcing them. Just like some bend it for their benefit. How do you expect them to catch some of the bad guys if they were to have to tell the truth all the time? At times its hard for them to catch the BG the way it is now. The average citizen would be surprised at the amount of information that LEO must learn, remember, and apply. Im a cadet now, and I have learned alot that I didn't know until the academy. Take a citizen on patrol course and you'll get a taste of the legal side of the world.

They should make an iPad app for police to look up laws

They have one for an I phone.. Watched a good friend and recent PD Academy grad look up a statute while we were out at a club having a beer. we asked ,she whipped out her I phone and looked it up.. said she does this all the time on the street,,

This is Killeen PD BTW, and I'm told they are encouraged to do this.....

I'm interested in what charge would be forthcoming for not carrying I.D. - as there's no such law in existence.

We aren't required to produce "our papers" anytime an LEO simply demands them without just cause, i.e., violating a traffic law...

One of the fundamental freedoms in the U.S. is NOT having to produce "our papers" anytime someone in power capriciously demands them.

It's not illegal to be without official I.D. and if some over zealous LEO's threatens/demands you have I.D. he's totally in the wrong.

Abraham, what's interesting is that in California, it used to be that failure to be able to produce ID was considered justification for a charge of Vagrancy, which was illegal at the time. And failure to produce ID (assuming you actually had it on you) was seen as a failure to be able to produce ID, since a good little subject would of course produce it if he had it on him...

...but that was back in the bad old days. Now it's even worse there.

I can see this coming: Every person in the USA will have to have a passport and /or passport card and it will be madatory that you produce your "documents" (without just cause) whenever you are demanded to do so. We will have checkpoints at every state line, they will be doing passport checks like they now do check points for DUI's, seatbelts, or whatever they want to say they are checking for. We are slowing losing our rights.

seniorshooteress wrote:I can see this coming: Every person in the USA will have to have a passport and /or passport card and it will be madatory that you produce your "documents" (without just cause) whenever you are demanded to do so.

Or you'll need an ObamaCard to get ObamaCare so that will become a defacto ID.

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

They cannot ask for your ID just because.

Note that those statutes only state that it's illegal to give a "false or fictitious name". It does NOT say you have to produce a valid ID, or give them your name -- you just can't lie about it.

sjfcontrol wrote:It does NOT say you have to produce a valid ID, or give them your name

Once you're arrested you do - else you get a fail to ID - refusal charge (Class C Misd)

gigag04 wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:It does NOT say you have to produce a valid ID, or give them your name

Once you're arrested you do - else you get a fail to ID - refusal charge (Class C Misd)

Yeah, I wasn't talking about AFTER arrest. Just talking about the statutes listed. By the way, I presume those are Texas statutes, the video was from Santa Fe NM.

Yes - penal code.