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Pinkycatcher wrote:

Quahog wrote:
Police say when they approached the suspect, he drew a weapon and pointed it at officers. After refusing to drop the weapon, three officers fired multiple rounds, striking the suspect numerous times.

This is what has me, of course the police are going to say that, that's the only way to justify their shooting, so they along with witnesses in the family shouldn't be held as reliable witnesses. Of course witness testimony in itself is always kind of sketchy, and video evidence would be the best, I hope they find it and if these cops shot an unarmed man then they need to be held accountable (unlikely), but if they were justified then I have no remorse for the CHL holder here.

But I just hope they find conclusive video evidence either way.

The other thing to keep in mind is what the cops were told before they arrived on scene.

although I run into 2 issues, one being that I dont understand where having to cops outside guns drawn ona crowd of people walking out is a smart move.
And two being, If I walked through the door and saw two cops with guns pointing at me regardless of what they where yelling I wouldnt have moved an inch. whats that sir, you want me to remove my gun from my holster? how about you hand cuff me and take it yourself...

It will be interesting to see if there is any video of the actuall shooting, not likely that they have cameras outside of the building near the entrance.

not likely that they have cameras outside of the building near the entrance.

Actually, retail establishments very often have cameras on the entrance/exit to capture the images of robbers or shoplifters. Take a look at the stores where you shop.

Most police cars also have dashcams now. I don't know how the responding officers' cars were placed, but typically they are not parked in the rear.

- Jim

Pinkycatcher wrote:But I just hope they find conclusive video evidence either way.

If it exists. Those things have been known to disappear.

Fangs wrote:

This is horrible all around. In my CHL class the instructor covered a similar scenario (after a defensive shooting), where 3 officers give 3 very conflicting verbal commands simultaneously. Something like "freeze", "drop it", and "get on the ground". We were taught to just freeze until the officers figured out and agreed upon what they wanted you to do. That makes sense to me, since not moving is further away from making an aggressive movement than moving at all is.

I personally assume that "going berzerk" = victim telling employee they can't legally deny him from carrying in their store.

Would love to see the video of his berzerking. Would also love to see it come down on whoever called it in's head if s/he exaggerated it.

Most police agencies teach their officers some version of a concept called Contact / Cover. Besides officer safety considerations, one of its goals is to eliminate the confusion of multiple conflicting orders and the potential for tragedy that arises from acting in a way that complies with one order and violates another.

One of the criticisms that the commission that reviewed the tactics used by California BART officers in the incident where a handcuffed suspect was fatally shot was that they were working without the discipline of contact / cover, failed to work as a team, and created a chaotic situation that elevated the risk that the incident could spin out of control.

When contact / cover is done right, one officer is designated as the one who speaks and gives commands to the subject and searches and handcuffs if necessary. The other officer(s) position themselves to be able to protect the contact officer if needed, and in a way that avoids a "circular firing squad" configuration where some officers find themselves opposite other officers with a suspect in the middle so neither officer in the pair can safely fire without endangering his fellow officer, no matter what the subject does.

From the initial news reports (which are always suspect and nearly always turn out to contain major factual errors) it doesn't sound like contact / cover tactics were used during the incident under examination here.

A much more complete and factual account of the events will emerge in time.

very sad deal. most major retailers have parking lot and entrace/exit cams.

This update seems to justify the police shooting Eric, although the Costco employees appear to have blown what happened inside the store completely out of all proportion.

Zipper holster == fanny pack?
If so, I do not know how one can see the gun in this case. I still do not understand how one is supposed to drop his gun if said gun is holstered
Best action was just to freeze and follow the LEO.commands.

Sorry I didn't post the link, glad everyone was able to find it. (some sites dont want links they want the story posted)

Really sad story. There will be no winners here only people hurt.

Its amazing how many different directions the eye witness accounts can go.

With the officers guns already drawn and most probably aimed and pointed at our Army veteran. Why would he draw his gun?

This does not appear to be suicide by police officer, so why would he draw? Three against one, with the three all ready to fire and you with your
gun in a "zippered pouch" and your hands to your side. It makes no sense.

His gun in his waist band holster and him moving his hands down and up to raise his shirt to either show it to the officers or to put the gun on the ground seems more probable.

This would also concur with 50% of the eye witnesses. The other 50% say he had his gun out, but if that's true, when did he draw it.

I hope they will find a good video of this whole thing.

In the police officers defense, sounds like the Costco folks did a great job of getting the police pumped up that this was a crazy nut job.

Just for every one's information who does not know Summerlin in Las Vegas, it's kind of a new yuppy/retiree/money part of the city, think Woodlands.

I guess the scenes in the movies and on TV where the police ask the bad guy to drop his gun, is all fiction. If you are touching a gun you are all ready shot.

I know exactly what to do now if I am ever in that situation: put my hands on my head and try not to twitch. Sad, sad stiuation. Hope to see an update soon on this story.

Very sad. Please say a prayer for all that were involved. Hopefully many will learn from this.

seniorshooteress wrote:I know exactly what to do now if I am ever in that situation: put my hands on my head and try not to twitch. Sad, sad stiuation. Hope to see an update soon on this story.

Just what I was thinking too. Put my hands behind my head and very very slowly go down on my knees and hope for the best.

But then they might think you are reaching for your BUG in it's BTNH (behind the neck holster). Might be better to "reach for the sky".

We may be waiting awhile to find out what actually happened in this incident. According to the article in this link the video will not be released by police until after the coroner's inquest is complete sometime in September.

http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12801643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keith B wrote:We may be waiting awhile to find out what actually happened in this incident. According to the article in this link the video will not be released by police until after the coroner's inquest is complete sometime in September.

http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12801643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Serious question: why does it take 2-3 months for a coroner to say the guy died by gun shots? Document the trajectory and you're done. What else is there?

Hoi Polloi wrote:

Keith B wrote:We may be waiting awhile to find out what actually happened in this incident. According to the article in this link the video will not be released by police until after the coroner's inquest is complete sometime in September.

http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12801643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Serious question: why does it take 2-3 months for a coroner to say the guy died by gun shots? Document the trajectory and you're done. What else is there?

A coroner's inquest is different than an autopsy. Similar to a trial, they call witnesses to testify. I imagine the county attorney needs time to examine the evidence and prepare. In addition to the autopsy, I am sure that they will do alcohol and drug tests on the deceased. Sometimes that can take several weeks to get the lab reports. It also gives time for the furor about the shooting to subside.