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TAM, You hit the nail on the head. Population control, Gun control, eugenics are not so much conspiracies as movements. But a Seamus stated, they are movements of the "elite" to control the activities of the "lower classes".

Just to clarify what I meant, it was the desire of some people at some times to control the "lower classes." Some were idealists. Even today, I'm sure many "gun control" advocates think that they are trying to "save the children" from the depredations of criminals.

None of this works. It never has. It never will. The same goes for pornography, prostitution, alcohol, smoking, drugs, and gambling.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Just to clarify what I meant, it was the desire of some people at some times to control the "lower classes." Some were idealists. Even today, I'm sure many "gun control" advocates think that they are trying to "save the children" from the depredations of criminals.

None of this works. It never has. It never will. The same goes for pornography, prostitution, alcohol, smoking, drugs, and gambling.

- Jim

Interestingly, the legalization of actions does have a significant effect on how, when, and by whom those actions are taken. Likewise, the criminalizing of actions does not eliminate those actions but does change the demographics on who participates in them and to what extent.

I think it is a valid conversation, though outside the scope of this thread, to ask if the government has the responsibility or the right to exert those influences and controls over others and to what extent. That their control does change what many people do is indisputable, though. The more tax added to cigarettes, for example, has a clear inverse correlation with the number of people who smoke and with how much people smoke. It has the biggest effect on younger smokers who are far less likely to smoke than their older counterparts when the price starts going up. I am not arguing in favor or against this or providing commentary on the government's use of these studies to affect their decisions. I am merely pointing out that legalization does change things on a macro scale.

I am trying to identify libraries which would have the primary sources of eugenicists which I could cross-reference for any suggested policy on weapons or controlling others' access to means of force such as firearms. If there isn't anything in their primary sources, I'd know it wasn't from the same movement. If they did write about it then I could look deeper to see what effect their writings had on the society at large and on the policy of the age. Any suggestions on people or places to start with would be appreciated!

Hoi Polloi wrote:I am trying to identify libraries which would have the primary sources of eugenicists which I could cross-reference for any suggested policy on weapons or controlling others' access to means of force such as firearms. If there isn't anything in their primary sources, I'd know it wasn't from the same movement. If they did write about it then I could look deeper to see what effect their writings had on the society at large and on the policy of the age. Any suggestions on people or places to start with would be appreciated!

Just a thought, but you might try libraries at liberal arts colleges/universities.

Hoi Polloi wrote:I am trying to identify libraries which would have the primary sources of eugenicists which I could cross-reference for any suggested policy on weapons or controlling others' access to means of force such as firearms.

I don't think you're going to find the "smoking gun" that you seem to be looking for.

These ideas have circulated for millenia across the ideological spectrum: that "the masses" need to be controlled for their own good, that "undesirables" need to be made to go away, preferably without making a mess, that the lower classes cannot be trusted with weapons, or the vote, or being able to read or travel or make their own decisions about whom to marry or how many children to have.

They are almost always couched in terms of kindness, wisdom, and religious motivations, not "let's disarm and enslave people so that we can be rich and secure." People who thought and acted that way did not write books.

If you are approaching these ideas for the first time, you might want to read Plato's Republic and Thomas Hobbes's Leviathan. That should keep you busy for a couple of weeks.

- JIm