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WildBill wrote:I think that others have met with much harsher responses for identical questions. Maybe we are becoming more compassionate and less judgemental in our old age.

Say it ain't so!!!

(But I think you're right.)

I have reread my post and see how it can be read several different ways. Please accept my most humble apologies if it appeared to be any kind of attack or criticsm. Please rest assured that I am only trying to be supportive and encouraging. I was helped tremendously by many on this forum when I began carrying, whether I was lurking or participating. Bunch of great folks!

WildBill wrote:

Excaliber wrote:IMHO, Someone who is not ready to carry a gun with a round chambered isn't yet ready to carry it at all.

That's an interesting observation. I'll have to think about that.

To expand on that thought a bit, being uncomfortable about carrying a chambered round is a sure indication of one or more of the following:

1. Incomplete knowledge of exactly how the weapon operates
2. Lack of confidence in one's own ability to carry and operate it safely
3. A lack of understanding of the dynamics of deadly threat encounters

Addressing these 3 areas properly will eventually make him or her comfortable with carrying the gun with a chambered round. At that point, he or she will be far more ready ready to carry a handgun for defensive purposes in public.

Carrying the gun without a chambered round before that point is reached is inadvisable because the skill to use it successfully for its intended purpose under the conditions of a life threatening incident will not be there.

In my opinion, it's better to address the issues rather than kidding oneself about what he actually has the capacity to do. Finding out one's skills won't cut it during an actual violent incident can ruin one's entire day - and every day afterwards.

I for one, am glad he is asking questions rather then just trying to wing it.

short answer is chamber condition zero or one.

I daily carry a full size 1911 usually in condition zero, at certain times condition one.

It is a natural evolution of carry to go from condition 4 to condition 1 or 0. Just starting out you think the gun is going to "go off". Over time and getting more comfortable with the carry, you go to condition zero or one.

I understand...and went through it myself...just get compfortable with the carry and you are good to go.

Can't say I recommend C0 with a 1911, but to each his own.

GROAN! Here comes cbunt1 with another of his long-winded posts! And if that's not what you're thinking, well shame on you, cuz it's sure what I think when I read my own!!!

BUT...

I carry a 1911 Condition One. That's me.

It was indeed an evolution. I grew up under the tutelage of a confirmed wheelgunner. One who firmly beleived that even a DA such as a S&W 686 or a Colt Python should be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. That's what I was comfortable with.

I was never allowed dry-fire practice growing up. Not because it wasn't safe, but because it was "hard on the gun." I was, however allowed dry-fire practice with once-fired cartridges or dummy rounds.

Therefore, when I decided to start carrying a gun day in and day out (back before the CHL, by the way...I travelled a lot, and always kept a pistol in the glove box for the more-than occasional euthanasia and snake/coyote dispatch duties assigned to a country-boy), I carried a 1911, much to my dad's chagrin. While he appreciated the fine machine it is, he just didn't like "those darn jamomatics." I carried it condition 0.

When I moved to carrying on my body, I was at first only comfortable with a revolver for all-the-time carry. I did carry on a full cylinder though (see, there's progress).

When I moved to an autoloader, it was a DA with a decocker. Boy what a shock that would have been to Dad...an autoloader, AND with that horrible sound it makes when you decock it and drop the hammer (I know...took some getting used to for me too).

With time I moved to a cocked-and locked 1911. Yes, it was a progression. No I don't think my dad would turn over in his grave...but I think it would have been an evolution for him as well--one he would have made.

Point is--there's nothing to be ashamed of, and since carrying a gun is supposed to be "comforting if not comfortable" don't do anything you're not yet comfortable with...be willing to evolve, be willing to ask questions.

I hope this helps.

Excaliber wrote: Carrying the gun without a chambered round before that point is reached is inadvisable because the skill to use it successfully for its intended purpose under the conditions of a life threatening incident will not be there.

In my opinion, it's better to address the issues rather than kidding oneself about what he actually has the capacity to do. Finding out one's skills won't cut it during an actual violent incident can ruin one's entire day - and every day afterwards.

I'm sure I won't know whether I have those actual skills unless/until I have to use them, and I don't want to ever think I'm truly "ready." Just as in flying, teaching, racing, there will always be CHL skills about which I'm uncomfortable. But I'm sure that's just me.

gigag04 wrote:Can't say I recommend C0 with a 1911, but to each his own.

Why wouldnt you? the only way it is designed to go off is if the plate behind the grip is pressed....in addition to the trigger.

again, to each his own, but I have carried condition 0 for long enough that I am more than comfy with it :-) .

gigag04 wrote:Can't say I recommend C0 with a 1911, but to each his own.

It is said, that JMB Designed the 1911 without a thumb safety, and only added one after the US Military demanded it.

Don't know how true this is, and I carry in condition 1, but, in reality, how much different is a 1911, in condition 0, with the grip safety, than say, a glock with it's safe-action trigger?
Each has precisely one safety built into the normal mechanics of shooting, it's just it's location that is different.

Or you could combine both, and get a XDm, with a trigger safety, and a grip safety

EDIT: Also, I have unintentionally carried in C0 many, many times, when the thumb safety became accidentally disengaged throughout the course of my day. No sweat off my brow, as I never touch the trigger when unholstering. I simply re-set the safety, and carry on.

Posted for educational purposes(I believe these are correct):

The 1911 carry conditions are:
Condition Four(4): Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three(3): Chamber empty, charged magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two(2): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One(1): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer cocked, thumb safety on.
Condition Zero(0): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer cocked, thumb safety off.

-Cain

CainA wrote:Posted for educational purposes(I believe these are correct):

The 1911 carry conditions are:
Condition Four(4): Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three(3): Chamber empty, charged magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two(2): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One(1): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer cocked, thumb safety on.
Condition Zero(0): A round chambered, charged magazine in place, hammer cocked, thumb safety off.

-Cain

Thank you. I had to look it up when it was first mentioned. I don't know much so I appreciate the sidebar explanations.

I had a P95 for years, it never failed to fire from the DA position.

Chamber without a doubt.

Excaliber wrote:To expand on that thought a bit, being uncomfortable about carrying a chambered round is a sure indication of one or more of the following:

1. Incomplete knowledge of exactly how the weapon operates
2. Lack of confidence in one's own ability to carry and operate it safely
3. A lack of understanding of the dynamics of deadly threat encounters

4. A lack of faith in the gun's ability to not fire without having the trigger pulled (but then I would argue that such guns are not suitable for defensive carrying)