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Actually, its a toss up in my mind whether campus carry or parking lot is the easier sell. Fortunately, neither cost the taxpayers any money other than fighting the lawsuits that may spring up. I can see where an employer may react poorly to being told what they can and can't allow on their property. I can also see where a public university or college administration may feel they are losing control of their campus. In my mind, however, the public universities/colleges are just that---public. Why should a tuition paying student check his rights at the door of the lecture hall? I am middle aged. I am a college student. I see few campus officers (if any) during the course of the day. Its an open campus with 33,000 students. A veritable feeding frenzy for a lunatic and I am right in the middle of it.

As far as high schools go, if one is properly licensed to teach and also properly licensed to carry, what's the problem? I agree that college campus carry is a foot in the door for allowing it in public high schools as well. One battle at a time, though.

I voted for Campus Carry, although I am not a student, and probably won't be spending much time at a college campus in the future.
If we can get the CC through we will be doing more to protect our children. I believe that our children at more risk on our campuses than most workers are during their commute and at their work parking lots. Most of us are allowed to at least take our guns and leave them in the parking lots at work. Some who aren't allowed can still leave them in the car, there is no legal risk. Students face criminal charges if they decide to carry on campus.

If we get this law through, it will make a positive statement to the community that there is no blood in the street. That those who legally carry guns are, the same folks that make our world safer. I see Campus Carry as the big enchillada, The one law that when passed that makes such a positive statement, that any antigun law becomes irrelevant. After all if we as a state decide that its ok to have carry our guns in our schools, and bad stuff doesn't happen. Doesn't it make arguments to ban guns in the workplace or just about anywhere silly?

While this might be the most difficult law to pass, this will be the most opportune time in our lifetime. We have a huge majority and a Governor who is in favor of this. 2 years from now we could lose some of the legislative strength we now enjoy.

I won't be happy until we have full and unrestricted right to carry, While some might see the right for Open carry to be the path to accomplish this, I see it as being a divisive, people seeing more guns on people in the malls and streets isn't going to make the average civilian feel warmer or cozier. But knowing that folks are carrying on our campuses as well as our malls and churches, should make it more difficult for Texas businesses to ban guns from our workplaces.

Liberty wrote:I voted for Campus Carry, although I am not a student, and probably won't be spending much time at a college campus in the future.
If we can get the CC through we will be doing more to protect our children. I believe that our children at more risk on our campuses than most workers are during their commute and at their work parking lots. Most of us are allowed to at least take our guns and leave them in the parking lots at work. Some who aren't allowed can still leave them in the car, there is no legal risk. Students face criminal charges if they decide to carry on campus.

If we get this law through, it will make a positive statement to the community that there is no blood in the street. That those who legally carry guns are, the same folks that make our world safer. I see Campus Carry as the big enchillada, The one law that when passed that makes such a positive statement, that any antigun law becomes irrelevant. After all if we as a state decide that its ok to have carry our guns in our schools, and bad stuff doesn't happen. Doesn't it make arguments to ban guns in the workplace or just about anywhere silly?

While this might be the most difficult law to pass, this will be the most opportune time in our lifetime. We have a huge majority and a Governor who is in favor of this. 2 years from now we could lose some of the legislative strength we now enjoy.

I won't be happy until we have full and unrestricted right to carry, While some might see the right for Open carry to be the path to accomplish this, I see it as being a divisive, people seeing more guns on people in the malls and streets isn't going to make the average civilian feel warmer or cozier. But knowing that folks are carrying on our campuses as well as our malls and churches, should make it more difficult for Texas businesses to ban guns from our workplaces.

Liberty wrote:

I voted for Campus Carry, although I am not a student, and probably won't be spending much time at a college campus in the future.
If we can get the CC through we will be doing more to protect our children. I believe that our children at more risk on our campuses than most workers are during their commute and at their work parking lots. Most of us are allowed to at least take our guns and leave them in the parking lots at work. Some who aren't allowed can still leave them in the car, there is no legal risk. Students face criminal charges if they decide to carry on campus.

I'm fine with Campus Carry for "top billing", IMO it is the most likely to pass anyway.

If we get this law through, it will make a positive statement to the community that there is no blood in the street. That those who legally carry guns are, the same folks that make our world safer. I see Campus Carry as the big enchillada, The one law that when passed that makes such a positive statement, that any antigun law becomes irrelevant. After all if we as a state decide that its ok to have carry our guns in our schools, and bad stuff doesn't happen. Doesn't it make arguments to ban guns in the workplace or just about anywhere silly?

I disagree here, but maybe I just don't understand the "oppositions" logic (if there is any).
Maybe someone can explain it to me. What makes schools so special? Is it the fact the majority of people there are under the age of 30? Is there some perception that this age group (while carrying) acts impetuously other places? What is it about a school setting that suddenly increases the chance of a mishap? Responsible people tend to be responsible no matter the setting.

I don't get it! However...I do agree that EVERY new "privilege" garnered and exercised (without incident)...reinforces the FACT that CHL's are not a threat to the public. You would think 16 yrs. of CC in Texas (largely without incident) would be ample proof. It's a lack of public education, pure and simple.

While this might be the most difficult law to pass, this will be the most opportune time in our lifetime. We have a huge majority and a Governor who is in favor of this. 2 years from now we could lose some of the legislative strength we now enjoy.

I see Campus Carry as having the best chance of any of the bills....but whether it is or isn't the time is right for it, I hope the most is made of it.

I won't be happy until we have full and unrestricted right to carry,

Same!

While some might see the right for Open carry to be the path to accomplish this, I see it as being a divisive, people seeing more guns on people in the malls and streets isn't going to make the average civilian feel warmer or cozier

.
Do you mean "divisive" if not pursued until after preparatory work has been laid, or divisive period? I ask...because if your ultimate goal is a full and unrestricted right to carry, then by default... OC is going to be in there. That is why I would like see support for it being gathered NOW in preparation for a future bill. Not as a "leap frog" technique... hoping to advance gun rights in one fell swoop,that wouldn't work and isn't reasonable.

But knowing that folks are carrying on our campuses as well as our malls and churches, should make it more difficult for Texas businesses to ban guns from our workplaces.

We are already carrying in malls and churches as well as hundreds of other places, how many examples does the public need? Again, the facts speak for themselves, CHL's tend to responsible people regardless of the setting. Where we have failed...is in educating the public, we have not reached enough people demonstrating the difference in the two gun cultures (Responsible vs. Criminal)

While I totally support campus carry, I voted for employer parking lots for purely selfish reasons. If I were a student or teacher my priority would probably be different.

flintknapper wrote:I disagree here, but maybe I just don't understand the "oppositions" logic (if there is any).
Maybe someone can explain it to me. What makes schools so special? Is it the fact the majority of people there are under the age of 30? Is there some perception that this age group (while carrying) acts impetuously other places? What is it about a school setting that suddenly increases the chance of a mishap? Responsible people tend to be responsible no matter the setting.

Easily answered. It's the children.

You know, we have to have school lunches because children shouldn't have to go hungry. We can't have guns near schools because children shouldn't feel threatened. We have to have welfare because children should have to suffer due to the actions of their parents.

Children are one of the linchpins of the liberals' arguments for more government control.

baldeagle wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I disagree here, but maybe I just don't understand the "oppositions" logic (if there is any).
Maybe someone can explain it to me. What makes schools so special? Is it the fact the majority of people there are under the age of 30? Is there some perception that this age group (while carrying) acts impetuously other places? What is it about a school setting that suddenly increases the chance of a mishap? Responsible people tend to be responsible no matter the setting.

Easily answered. It's the children.

You know, we have to have school lunches because children shouldn't have to go hungry. We can't have guns near schools because children shouldn't feel threatened. We have to have welfare because children should have to suffer due to the actions of their parents.

Children are one of the linchpins of the liberals' arguments for more government control.

I suppose it applies everywhere, but you are talking more about K-12 and I was concentrating on College Campuses. The faculty of schools K-12 would be a minuscule number, whereas the faculty and (eligible) students on campus might be appreciable.

baldeagle wrote:Easily answered. It's the children. Children are one of the linchpins of the liberals' arguments for more government control.

Over the past twenty years "Save the Children" has been one of the main "justifications" for passing bad legistation.

flintknapper wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I disagree here, but maybe I just don't understand the "oppositions" logic (if there is any).
Maybe someone can explain it to me. What makes schools so special? Is it the fact the majority of people there are under the age of 30? Is there some perception that this age group (while carrying) acts impetuously other places? What is it about a school setting that suddenly increases the chance of a mishap? Responsible people tend to be responsible no matter the setting.

Easily answered. It's the children.

You know, we have to have school lunches because children shouldn't have to go hungry. We can't have guns near schools because children shouldn't feel threatened. We have to have welfare because children should have to suffer due to the actions of their parents.

Children are one of the linchpins of the liberals' arguments for more government control.

I suppose it applies everywhere, but you are talking more about K-12 and I was concentrating on College Campuses. The faculty of schools K-12 would be a minuscule number, whereas the faculty and (eligible) students on campus might be appreciable.

No, I'm not talking about K-12. LIberals don't make that distinction. They speak of "school" and "children" without making any distinction about grades or ages.

The problem with a lot of people on this forum (like you, for example), is that they think about things rationally and intelligently. The mistake they make is extending that process to the general population. Most people aren't like you. They're not rational. They're emotional. Easily swayed by rhetoric. They don't think things through like you do and reason out a course of action. They react to situations and demand that "something be done about it", without thinking about the consequences long term.

You need to stop assuming that other people are like you and realize that many, many of them are not.

My vote is for employee parking lots even though I'm retired I do visit friends that work. Thanks Charles for all the work that you do for our cause.

other. Mine is still the unconstitutional "unpaid taxes" can't have a CHL.

If the sack gets empty, go for campus carry, maybe we can educate a ton of folks on self-defense and peace of mind.

Flint:
I believe there will be a lot of public debate about both issues ( OC and CC). Some of those people speaking for the CC right will be articulate young folks whom it will directly affect. These arguements will be about how responsible the CHL carriers have been, while the Brady bunch will come across as being neighsayers and reactionary to the average media consumer.
The OC people will likely be countered with other "gunpeople" I believe in this issue the enemy is amongst us. While I believe we can and will win this one it will cost us in public relations. There is no war as ugly and blood letting as a civil war.
A wise possum once said, "We have found the enemy and he is us!", While the issue is important and worth pursuing, only because its one step further towards constitutional carry. I also believe that this will be a a multi battle war. with several fronts. There may be resistance with the TSRA and it might take a couple legislative rejections, but eventually I know we can win this one. In the mean time we need to go after the easier and arguably the more important stuff.

I didn't see where I could vote for "repeal penal code chapter 46", but thats what I want.

Liberty wrote:Flint:
I believe there will be a lot of public debate about both issues ( OC and CC). Some of those people speaking for the CC right will be articulate young folks whom it will directly affect. These arguements will be about how responsible the CHL carriers have been, while the Brady bunch will come across as being neighsayers and reactionary to the average media consumer.
The OC people will likely be countered with other "gunpeople" I believe in this issue the enemy is amongst us. While I believe we can and will win this one it will cost us in public relations. There is no war as ugly and blood letting as a civil war.
A wise possum once said, "We have found the enemy and he is us!", While the issue is important and worth pursuing, only because its one step further towards constitutional carry. I also believe that this will be a a multi battle war. with several fronts. There may be resistance with the TSRA and it might take a couple legislative rejections, but eventually I know we can win this one. In the mean time we need to go after the easier and arguably the more important stuff.

Agreed, and I have argued for nothing more. (except better communication techniques).

Well, I'm on the Board of Directors for Students for Concealed Carry, so it's not like my vote was in question. Having said that, this is my rational: Campus carry has a criminal penalty-- you can go to prison simply for wanting to defend yourself. You can defy the rules against parking lot without fear of jail time and while remaining a law abiding citizen.

Parking lots are not governmental property, but private. While I agree with the interpretation that it's an extension of your home, I think it's far more offensive for the government to ban self-defense than for private industries to do so. Forbidding campus carry is a governmental guarantee of unarmed victims to criminals.

That's not to speak ill of any pro-gun legislation of course, but it's certainly something to think of when it comes to "top" priority. All that said however, if I'm looking strictly from the perspective of the TSRA, parking lots did come first in 2007.