Campus Carry Poll in College Station Newspaper

[bigred90gt]

This gandalf guy is a bit of a hypocrite. He claims that those of us in support of concealed carry use nothing but emotions in an attempt to carry based on our preference, and attempts to dismiss our statistics as irrelevant for whatever reason he deems necessary, yet until 4:00am this morning, he had presented no statistics in favor of his position (and this discussion has been ongoing since Monday or Tuesday, and he has been involved since the beginning). Our statistics in support of CC have been provided by state, local, and federal agencies, yet they are "irrelevant and inconclusive". His single statistic was provided by the DPS (who is the source of many of our statistics), and yet it is perfectly relevant and conclusive, even though it could only be seen as marginally in support of his position, at best?

[baldeagle]

You guys need to fight fire with fire. (These are all pdfs.) 71.34% of all licenses revoked were issued to white males. Therefore white males should not be allowed to have a CHL. 21.95% of the licenses revoked were in Harris County. Therefore guns should be banned in Harris county. Among college age adults 18-22, 0% had their licenses revoked. So apparently CHL holders only become dangerous after they graduate.

The total number of revocations in 2009 was 164. The total number of active licenses in 2009 was 402,914. So revocations represented 00.0047% of the license holding population. The 52 license holders 30 and under who had their licenses revoked represent 00.00129% of the license holder population. 18-22 year olds were not represented in the revocation statistics, because no 18-22 year olds had their licenses revoked. Therefore we should issue CHLs to all college students, except older adults, because the young kids don't get their licenses revoked.

[RPB]

yeah out of tiredness last night I started being as silly as he was; and I shouldn't have.

He, or someone is trying to say that a chl is 11% MORE likely to commit a mass murder, than the average guy.

I apologized for going tired silly in reaction to his false statement he tried to use to mislead
0-------------

I apologize for my tired silliness yesterday, I got irritated by the error in the false statement made either in error or attempting to mislead,
"You stated:
CHLs are 11% MORE likely to commit "capital murder of multiple persons" THAN the general population" which is inaccurate, (See below)


As for the Standard Deviation/Margin of error; one COULD possibly estimate/calculate
1) Number of persons NOT physically able to commit such a crime (to deduct from General Population)
and
2) Non-Texans just "Passing through in 2007" who are capable, but didn't (to add to the General Population for total persons capable of commission.)
I suppose you could.


But the actual figures for 2007 show the following:

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/tcr/publica ... -Texas.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Using the above link as a Population estimate for 2007 Texas Population = 23,936,227 = combined General Population = CHL + CHLs in Texas

Out of that population, 9 people (out of almost 24 million) were convicted of the crime so feared

(So it's a pretty remote chance it would occur to you at the hands of anyone at all from the general population, though you fear it occurring, so let's continue)

Out of those 9, only one was committed by a CHL, while 8 were committed by NON-CHLs

Sampling from the General Population:

So, if you took a SAMPLE of that population and place them in a room with you in 2007, The more CHLs you had in your sample in the room with you; the lower your risk is, than if it were filled with NON-CHLs. since 7 more non-CHLs were convicted of it than CHLs.

What the data represents is that if you fill a room Sample with the convicts, you are what? about 7 times MORE likely to suffer at the hands of a CHL than a NON-CHL (Not 11% MORE Likely to be a victim at the hands of a CHL than at the hands of an "average guy from the General Population" as you attempted to infer)

And if you fill a room Sample from the General Population, the very slight chances of suffering at their hands of anyone are small, but least if the room is filled with CHLs

In 2007, the more CHLs in the Sample room with you out of the A) GENERAL POPULATION, the safer you should "feel"

So, in 2007; the more CHLs in as room with you, the safer you should "feel" compared to filling your Sample room from the General Population


One should feel safer filling the sample room with CHLs, than filling the Sample with Non-CHLs.

[74novaman]

I commend everyone who's attempting to educate some of those people. For supposed "professors" some of those people have no interest in facts or reality.

[RPB]

I commend everyone who's attempting to educate some of those people. For supposed "professors" some of those people have no interest in facts or reality.

Nor literacy, nor sentence structure, nor history, nor Government, nor ....
bigred90gt / Average Guy ... read my 3 comments to your last post for a chuckle.

[bigred90gt]

The total number of revocations in 2009 was 164. The total number of active licenses in 2009 was 402,914. So revocations represented 00.0047% of the license holding population. The 52 license holders 30 and under who had their licenses revoked represent 00.00129% of the license holder population. 18-22 year olds were not represented in the revocation statistics, because no 18-22 year olds had their licenses revoked. Therefore we should issue CHLs to all college students, except older adults, because the young kids don't get their licenses revoked.

I copied that paragraph and posted it, along with the link included. I also copied the link that showed the revocation percentage for 18-22 year olds to be 0%. Thanks for doing the legwork on that.

[RPB]

I think I accidently moved my last post from below yours to on top of yours ... sorry.

I kept editing after posting ...

I needed to add :my Faculty/Staff Parking (and finally learning that the toilet paper IS softer in Faculty restrooms than in Student restrooms).... so that's why I refer to the "elite" who deprive me of my rights



Sorry ... just needed to complete my Auschwitz/Black people/Student deprivation of rights to benefit elite to the detriment of those deprived analogy

[RPB]

I wish there was a way to embed a Midi or .wav or MP3 file...

I want "Glory Glory Hallelujah" playing as they read this one ....

aggie_lecturer:

As "most" of the people jumping from the twin towers on 9/11 didn't need to carry a parachute to work to "feel" safe either. Neither would I.
But I bet they'd have liked to have been prepared.

Hence: it's about freedom of choice, rights and preferences, and being aware of one's surroundings, especially if one is in a zone more likely to be attractive to criminals wanting to rob/rape/beat/assault safely than other areas, (CRIMINAL-SAFE ZONE) ..... or if one belongs to a group more likely than the average person to get bullied, robbed etc etc It's about their preference and right to survive and defend themselves, ...not "feelings"

It's about depriving those persons of their rights, by the elite group in power, as it's been since Blacks weren't allowed to own guns, although it wasn't the FBI that stopped the KKK night raids, as much as it was armed "people" ... so, it was less like Auschwitz, where those individuals WERE deprived of their rights and preferences, to the benefit of the elite, and detriment of those deprived of their right to defend themselves.

I, being an individual who is a more likely target than an average person, believe I should have the right to defend myself; such right the "elite" wish to prevent me to exercise..

It isn't about if I "feel safe" ... I may not even "feel safe" when armed, depending on circumstances; but I do have a better chance of continuing life unharmed, if I'm allowed the freedom to exercise my rights.
+++++++
I prefer to be prepared, though I don't own a parachute, so I stay out of tall buildings.
(I also avoid Post office "gun-free zones" as I've never heard of anyone "going Postal" elsewhere.)
+++++++
So, I understand the "IT'S MY SCHOOL, STAY OUT IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT" mentality some others here project; and I understand why online courses are increasing in popularity, but I did enjoy being President of Phi Beta Lambda at another school, attending meetings of the 5 honor societies at 2 other schools, and on Speaker's committees and many many many many other organizations and activities on campus which could only be participated in by visiting the campus, as well as working on campus, socializing with the Police Officers, and especially my Faculty/Staff Parking (and finally learning that the toilet paper IS softer in Faculty restrooms than in Student restrooms).... so that's why I refer to the "elite" who deprive me of my rights ... but don't mean you personally

[txmatt]

yeah out of tiredness last night I started being as silly as he was; and I shouldn't have.

He, or someone is trying to say that a chl is 11% MORE likely to commit a mass murder, than the average guy.

I apologized for going tired silly in reaction to his false statement he tried to use to mislead
0-------------

I apologize for my tired silliness yesterday, I got irritated by the error in the false statement made either in error or attempting to mislead,
"You stated:
CHLs are 11% MORE likely to commit "capital murder of multiple persons" THAN the general population" which is inaccurate, (See below)


As for the Standard Deviation/Margin of error; one COULD possibly estimate/calculate
1) Number of persons NOT physically able to commit such a crime (to deduct from General Population)
and
2) Non-Texans just "Passing through in 2007" who are capable, but didn't (to add to the General Population for total persons capable of commission.)
I suppose you could.


But the actual figures for 2007 show the following:

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/tcr/publica ... -Texas.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Using the above link as a Population estimate for 2007 Texas Population = 23,936,227 = combined General Population = CHL + CHLs in Texas

Out of that population, 9 people (out of almost 24 million) were convicted of the crime so feared

(So it's a pretty remote chance it would occur to you at the hands of anyone at all from the general population, though you fear it occurring, so let's continue)

Out of those 9, only one was committed by a CHL, while 8 were committed by NON-CHLs

Sampling from the General Population:

So, if you took a SAMPLE of that population and place them in a room with you in 2007, The more CHLs you had in your sample in the room with you; the lower your risk is, than if it were filled with NON-CHLs. since 7 more non-CHLs were convicted of it than CHLs.

What the data represents is that if you fill a room Sample with the convicts, you are what? about 7 times MORE likely to suffer at the hands of a CHL than a NON-CHL (Not 11% MORE Likely to be a victim at the hands of a CHL than at the hands of an "average guy from the General Population" as you attempted to infer)

And if you fill a room Sample from the General Population, the very slight chances of suffering at their hands of anyone are small, but least if the room is filled with CHLs

In 2007, the more CHLs in the Sample room with you out of the A) GENERAL POPULATION, the safer you should "feel"

So, in 2007; the more CHLs in as room with you, the safer you should "feel" compared to filling your Sample room from the General Population


One should feel safer filling the sample room with CHLs, than filling the Sample with Non-CHLs.

Um what? I think your math may be lacking a bit on that one.

According to your numbers CHLs made up 11% of muliple murderers while only being 1.3% of the population. Thus, CHLs are about 10X as likely to commit a muliple murder.

Does this mean anything? Of course not. 1 out of 9 cases is not even remotely statistically significant. But let's not be making false statements

[RPB]

lol had to eat shower n watch tv ... I simply replied

iloveamerica2

What? No argument about the statistical probability of occupying a building hit by planes?

(grin)

Sorry you are so scared.

Nope, I'm not paranoid at all; I also avoid high crime darkly lit alleys at night until my Superman suit gets back from the cleaners anyway.

I wasn't paranoid before nor after the two hostage situations I was in, nor with the knife confrontation, and not paranoid after the 7th robber with a gun left; I wasn't paranoid when my head got bashed at my own home, nor when a cousin and his wife were murdered in bed; I wasn't paranoid when a person who had recently placed second in the State of Texas in Tai Kwon Do got drunk and hit me with a weapon until my ears bled, though I came out ahead on that one, using no weapon; I am however realistic and aware of my surroundings


I'm aware that criminals look for what THEY perceive to be "easy targets"

My physical appearance though some would call handicapped; and believe me to be an easy target; I don't consider a disability, but have been a blessing. Actually my mental condition is perfectly stable; if you must know, the State paid much of my tuition due to my "mental handicap"; you see, I'm left handed mentally, but have no left appendage; Can't go by looks though, I did have a .400 batting average in high school; as well as beat Rice University, and UofH while on the swim Team.

Love your personal attacks though; not that they bother me, I got used to them as a child and developed pretty thick skin; so continue on ...

I know impotency is frustrating to some;
Please don't go postal over your inability to affect me by attempts to bully/abuse verbally (smile)

Rest easy, no reason to be scared of the old grey-haired handicapped guy using a cane... I'm not one to be suicidal over getting bullied, robbed, beat or pushed down onto the concrete.
I just get up and carry on. So, you have absolutely no reason to fear me, especially in a gun-free zone, where bullies, rapists, gay-bashers, racists and criminals are safe ... that's how the "elite" such as yourself want it right?

argumentum ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy; why not attack the argument, instead of the person..
=================

Said the spider to the fly in response to the "verbal abuse" he posted ...

[baldeagle]

Well, I jumped in with both feet tonight. Should be interesting.

[baldeagle]

AndyC, you asked about the reasons for revocations. Texas doesn't publish the information, if they are tracking it. This page is old (1999) but might be somewhat useful.

[RPB]

Well, I jumped in with both feet tonight. Should be interesting.

I remembered last night that even though I absolutely mastered Stats 30 years ago in college that ... it was 30 years ago ... and I forgot what I had for lunch yesterday.

So, I'm sticking with logic and reality with argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people")

I saw a poster here on the forum I really liked with a monkey holding up its hand like STOP, the more you say about controlling my guns the dumber you look ...
like give them the rope, they'll hang themselves.

ILA2 just walked right into it. by his own actions, he totally supported the rationale in my prior post he was attempting to discredit .

COULDN'T resist, I had to go back and edit to THANK the scared (phobic?) guy ...

iloveamerica2, thank you for your ad hominem abuse post, allowing me to illustrate some of my points from my reply to aggie_lecturer