Think I have seen it all now.

[AV8R]

Some idea of cost on the thing?? Just about.

LT, I checked the website, and the sale prices on the clipboards are still showing, $100 for the IIIa,and $95 for the II. Walt intended, from the start, to make these products available to military and police at the lowest possible cost, to allow servicemen and officers in smaller departments to buy these with their own funds, hopefully getting them in service quickly and saving lives. These are really outstanding products.

[Mithras61]

Some idea of cost on the thing?? Just about.

The Composite Armor site lists the clipboards, pocket-sized trauma plates, a portable desk and a clipboard insert (9"x12") for prices ranging from $45 to $125.

They are currently offering a sale on all of these items. It looks like they are currently 20% off the list price...

[Rex B]

When a round hits that clipboard that you are holding, you can bet you'll feel more than the push you get when firing your own handgun. Going to be a sharp crack across your knuckles that would make Sister Margaret proud back at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion Catholic School! You'd better be holding it with your weak hand, because you won't be able to work a gun with it for a while.
If you are lucky, it will hit beside your hand and roll it to the side, hopefully not breaking your wrist in the process. If it hits above your hand, the bullet could be deflected in your face.
Best use would be to use it to deflect the BGs aim while you get your equipment into play.

The big advantage of using composites instead of ceramic or steel is that the bullet imbeds in the material, being completely stopped in less than its own length, and hence does not ricochet. This is a nice "face saving" feature. The NIJ IIIa clipboard weighs about the same as a large-frame .44 revolver, so the impulse is about the same as the recoil felt by the shooter. If one's wrists hold up shooting a .44, there shouldn't be a problem. Most thugs, though, use something a lot smaller, which allows an officer to respond to a surprise attack with a well-placed, effective shot. Every military culture until modern times fought with a weapon and a shield. It gives you an advantage, especially since the other guy is unprotected.

When holding a pistol, the recoil vector is designed into the weapon. You know that the recoil force will travel in a traight line just above your hand, and absorbed in the web of thumb and forefinger. The impact of a round into that clipboard will be in an unexpected place, almost certainly suboptimal for your hand/arm placement. It's going to be ugly, but better than the alternative.

That's also one heavy clipboard! Leaves out the schoolkids

[stevie_d_64]

I saw a video clip of a trooper in Austin who got shot three times, point blank from a vehicle as he was standing up to that window...

I think the clipboard initially may help, when initiating the contact...

But think of this...

I believe it becomes a moot point after the fact...

Someone hold onto that clipboard while I take a full swing st it with a ten pound sledgehammer...

To me its like the vest...Its still going to hurt and do some kind of damage to the bod...

But...I bet you live though...

Every little bit helps I believe...

[AV8R]

Just to clarify: A 240 grain bullet moving 1400 ft/s has a momentum of 1.5 slug-ft/s, and energy of 1050 ft-lb, in British gravitational units. The clipboards weigh about 5 lbs. Applying conservation of momentum, and ignoring the mass of the gases exiting the barrel, the clipboard, upon absorbing the bullet, will acquire a recoil velocity of 9.6 ft/s, or about 6.5 miles/hr. The clipboard thus acquires an energy of 7.2 ft-lb, which is a small amount. An average resisting force of 14.4 lb (roughly equal to the trigger pull on my Springfield 1911) would bring the clipboard to rest in 6 inches. Remember, the clipboard (with the embedded bullet) acquires all the initial momentum of the bullet, but very little of the energy ( 7.2 ft-lb final vs. 1050 ft-lb initial, less than seven tenths of a percent). These forces and energies are small, quite manageable, and insufficient to cause injury. Note that the bullet will have been captured and stopped before the clipboard has time to move significantly: it's all over before you know it's happening.

Consider the alternative of taking a .44 magnum in the chest.

Granny Glock brought up an interesting fact that gun owners are willing to spend $300 on a flashlight, but balk at paying chicken feed for something that would keep themselves from taking a round point-blank. The military are more rational customers.

[Rex B]

AV8R
I can't argue your numbers, but I'm not going to volunteer to test them either.

[TxFire]

Thanks AV8R for doing the math. I spent some time surfing this morning trying to figure out the math to figure the forces invovled and transferred. It all made my head hurt so I gave up. But your figures are in the realm of what I felt were involved though.

[AV8R]

AV8R
I can't argue your numbers, but I'm not going to volunteer to test them either.

I've been asked, and I've declined every time. Seems I'm not alone.

[AV8R]

TxFire, you are quite welcome.

[wgranberry]

Hello All,

It seems the clipboard debate has stirred quite a discussion. Let me clear a few things up about the clipboards.

First, they do work. The clipboards have been independently lab tested to conform to the NIJ Level II or IIIA threat levels, and we repeatedly test our production materials in house. The NIJ specifies testing 1 out every 1000 pieces manufactured, and we choose to test about 1 out of every 75 pieces to insure quality control. (We have not had a failure yet!)

Second, the aerospace composites used in our clipboards actually absorb the incoming bullet into the composite matrix. This eliminates the spalling and ricochet problems found in some ceramic armor products, even at shallow bullet impact angles.

Third, the recoil energy is manageable, and the clipboard does not twist or fly out of the way. The impact is over before the clipboard moves. The co-founder of company has done a live fire exercise and he equates the impact to the same feeling you get when you shank a baseball bat off the ball. It’s described as a kind of sharp vibration, that you most definitely feel, but it is manageable. As he puts it, "It beats the (heck) out of getting shot by .44!"

Finally, the clipboard was developed with several South Texas DPS troopers and they firmly believe in the clipboard, and don't leave their cars without them. We have had entire small departments buy them and have had great feedback on the usability of the armor. We also have military users, lawyers, and civilians that use our products. They practice keeping the board between their head and the suspect, and at car door ranges, the board will cover most of the body. It's not going to work in every situation, but the idea is to survive the first seconds of shooting incident, giving the user time to change the odds.

As far as civilian utility, that just depends on your personal style and preferences. I personally don't mind having another option, but it won't be the right choice for everyone.

Thanks for all the great comments and thoughtful discussions.

"Luck favors the prepared."

Walter Granberry
Composite Armor

[jbirds1210]

The co-founder of company has done a live fire exercise and he equates

Now that is a man that trusts his product! WOW

Thank you for the information..it is very interesting. The element of surprise is alwasy against someone walking up to a car door...I think it is a great idea.
Jason

[wgranberry]

The co-founder of company has done a live fire exercise and he equates

Now that is a man that trusts his product! WOW

Thank you for the information..it is very interesting. The element of surprise is alwasy against someone walking up to a car door...I think it is a great idea.
Jason

Glad you like the idea. Well I think the co-founder of the company having a PHD in physics adds quite a bit to trusting the product. "The numbers don't lie, but the politicians do." Interestingly enough, AV8R's numbers match the real world testing exactly. It's really no worse than shooting the .44 to begin with which I personally don't find to be the most pleasant gun to shoot.

"Luck favors the prepared."

Walter Granberry
Composite Armor

[longtooth]

Welcome aboard wgranberry. good report & I hope you stay on the board for other than the present discussion.