TexasCHLforum.com

rm9792 wrote:

jamisjockey wrote:Another case to be made for carrying a proper weapon in a proper holster. Pocket carry is for TV.

Do they make a derringer holster? If I carry one it is in my front pocket, no holster and quite safe. Hard to draw quick though. If i amusing a holster then may as well carry a small 9mm or .380. Derringer is a last resort, ultra concealed item to me.

http://bondarms.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.cobraderringers.com/category ... sters.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your Source for Derringer Holsters - cobraderringers.com


and others.

jamisjockey wrote:

PBratton wrote:Gas anyone yet determined if the place was properly signed or not?

My guess was that the manager was talking about the TABC sign when he mentioned that no guns were allowed...

Fox News brought that up this morning, and pointed out that there was no no-gun signage out front. No mention of TABC signs.

Raffa's has a liquor license, so I am sure they have a TABC sign up. I would also guess that was what the manager was talking about. Many not in the know think those prohibit guns from legally being carried. The problem is these types of events will cause more folks to 'be in the know' and potentially cause them to research posting a 30.06.

Warhammer wrote:

Thanks, Warhammer - Excellent illustration of the differences.

A clip is a device, usually made of sheet metal, that simply holds a group of rounds in a configuration that allows them to be more quickly loaded into either an internal or external magazine than they could be if you had to load them one by one by hand.

In pistols, rifles, and shotguns a magazine has a spring and a cartridge follower and serves as an ammunition feeding device during the firing cycle.

Clips are usually used for loading only and do not stay in the gun during carrying or firing. Magazines stay in the gun.

The en bloc Garand clip shown at the far right of Warhammer's illustration is one of the exceptions to this, but it still fits the definition of a clip. The magazine with the spring and follower are a permanent part of the gun's mechanism and are not removable like the ones in most pistols and autoloading rifles.

Protrusion from the body of the weapon is not the determinant of which is which.

A good friend of mine owns this place. I'm working to make sure they don't have a change in policy. He's very upset about what this did to his business.
He's a very conservative guy and supports 2nd amendment rights, but this may be real trouble for them in a few different ways including insurance.

G192627 wrote:, but this may be real trouble for them in a few different ways including insurance.

In this day and age, I don't doubt it. I wouldn't wish the hassle on anyone.

Keith B wrote:I personally am not a big fan of derringers as I don't think many folks properly use the safeties on them. Additionally, many have an open trigger, so if fully cocked, all one has to do is drop it and if it hits right (or maybe that should be wrong), then you have an ND.

What safety? None of mine have safeties. I think there is a halfcock though.

Most modern derringers (meaning the two barreled kind) have a hammer block that goes from side to side. The NAA mini's do not, they have a safety notch in the cylinder where you are supposed to let the hammer/firing pin down into for safe carry. Although safe carry and NAA mini's should never be in the same sentence.

G192627 wrote:A good friend of mine owns this place. I'm working to make sure they don't have a change in policy. He's very upset about what this did to his business.
He's a very conservative guy and supports 2nd amendment rights, but this may be real trouble for them in a few different ways including insurance.

I hope this incident doesn't give his restaurant a bad name. It doesn't sound like he did anything wrong. It's obviously the fault of the carrier. Hopefully any claim by the injured party can be redirected toward the gun owner.

I may be missing something, but I have a hard time understanding why someone would want to carry a two shot gun that is over six inches long, weighs 23 1/2 ounces unloaded, and doesn't have a trigger guard when one could carry a much safer and more capable firearm in the same size / weight envelope.

At over $600, price is clearly not a good reason either.

Chrispy wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

Chrispy wrote:I just saw this on the local news.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/HPD-Woma ... 43634.html

The terminology police here will soon be berating you for not titling your post "negligent" discharge. Whatever... Tomato, tom-ah-to...(For fans of my current Avatar.... TOE-MAY-TOE). Clip, magazine... Verbal, oral...

Interestingly the story says the woman was shot in the "bu--". Not the most professional reference to the posterior. What's with people carrying these junk guns that go off when you drop 'em? My Raven and Jennings .25's, just have the CLIP fall out of them when I drop them. They never go off (so far).

The reason for that is because many folks casually dismiss the event... and apply the all encompassing definition of "accidental" : An unintended event!

The purpose of CORRECTLY calling an avoidable incident like this one a "Negligent Discharge" is to assign responsibility to the person(s) involved. It is an important distinction!

Any weapon not secured in such fashion that it will not drop from clothing/concealment is clearly negligence. It is THIS kind of nonsense that really gains traction with the anti's, and rightfully so.

I'm actually glad that you guys educated me on that term. I see people mention NDs all the time on this and other firearm forums. I knew what they were referring to but for some reason never put two and two together to figure out what the N stood for.

Negligent is definitely a better term for it. Guns don't just accidentally fire (or at least very very rarely). If you are in possession of a firearm and it goes off after it was dropped, in your pocket, or however it happened, you are the one that is responsible, or negligent.

Obviously I was a little "tongue in cheek" in my initial post. I understand the terminology "negligent discharge", but I don't necessarily buy into the religious fervor demanding its use in all cases. An accident is by definition something that is unintentional. It can be the result of negligence, as in this case, but the term accident is still accurate. Many, if not most, car accidents are the result of negligence (distracted, speeding, drunk, etc.). We still call them accidents unless someone intentionally hit someone.... Car negligents?

I understand the distinction that is trying to be made. I just don't feel compelled to force change in the vernacular to make a political point...that is probably lost on most people anyway.

When I trained to be an NRA Pistol Instructor, which I was for 5 years, it was drilled into us not to call a handgun a weapon. I understand this is to point out that many people use a handgun for sport, not to hurt people. But, let's be honest. It is a weapon...so calling it that is not inaccurate. It's also a GUN, unless you're in the Navy...Or the Marine Corps... To paraphrase R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket ("This is my weapon, this is my gun, this one's for fightin' and this one's for fun...")

Anyway, rant over. Let me go verbally notify someone that I'm going out.

rm9792 wrote:

Keith B wrote:I personally am not a big fan of derringers as I don't think many folks properly use the safeties on them. Additionally, many have an open trigger, so if fully cocked, all one has to do is drop it and if it hits right (or maybe that should be wrong), then you have an ND.

What safety? None of mine have safeties. I think there is a halfcock though.

I have two--.38 and .22LR--neither have safeties or trigger guards. The .22LR was a gift and while a good looking gun, it is junk and I am unaware of any safety(ies). The .38 has a half-cock, which prevents the trigger from being pulled. I have not dropped (and do not plan on) them to see if they will fire.

rm9792 wrote:

Keith B wrote:I personally am not a big fan of derringers as I don't think many folks properly use the safeties on them. Additionally, many have an open trigger, so if fully cocked, all one has to do is drop it and if it hits right (or maybe that should be wrong), then you have an ND.

What safety? None of mine have safeties. I think there is a halfcock though.

Half-cock or a hammer block is the standard for safety on derringers. Not my personal choice for a secure method.

ScottDLS wrote:

Obviously I was a little "tongue in cheek" in my initial post.

Yes, I got that. However this is a serious matter and a subject worth correcting/repeating until people get it right.

I understand the terminology "negligent discharge", but I don't necessarily buy into the religious fervor demanding its use in all cases.

I do not apply it to ALL cases, just where it is reasonable (as in this case). Though… most firearms mishaps involve some degree of negligence.

An accident is by definition something that is unintentional. It can be the result of negligence, as in this case, but the term accident is still accurate.

I think we need to be very careful where firearms are concerned NOT to relieve the actor of accountability, responsibility, culpability ….simply because He/She “didn’t mean to”.

No responsible person leaves home intending/expecting to have their firearm discharge (un-manipulated). But, if a person…fails to take precautions to secure their firearm against the former, they are clearly guilty of negligence. I think you’ll find in the forthcoming civil suit that the jury clearly understands what IS and what ISN’T an “accident”.

Many, if not most, car accidents are the result of negligence (distracted, speeding, drunk, etc.).

Agreed.

We still call them accidents unless someone intentionally hit someone.... Car negligents?

No, call it what it is: A wreck (they vary in severity). The fact that a person might not have wanted the resulting outcome, intended it to happen, or expected it, is too easily afforded them. What we need to look at is:
Did the actor know (or should know) that his/her actions could significantly increase the likelihood of an unwanted event. If yes, then let’s NOT let them hide behind “I didn’t mean to”/ accident.

I understand the distinction that is trying to be made. I just don't feel compelled to force change in the vernacular to make a political point...that is probably lost on most people anyway.

If you truly understand…then join in and help change the misuse of the term “Accidental Discharge” (most are not).

And there is nothing “political” about my position on this. I want to see Gun Owners more actively “policing our own” instead of seeking to dilute or excuse our infractions.

Now…I am not saying that legitimate accidents don’t happen, just pointing out… that when closely examined… most of these events could reasonably have been expected, avoided, circumvented.

“Unintentional” (by itself) will be a hard sell ….if I’m on the jury.

Keith B wrote:

rm9792 wrote:

Keith B wrote:I personally am not a big fan of derringers as I don't think many folks properly use the safeties on them. Additionally, many have an open trigger, so if fully cocked, all one has to do is drop it and if it hits right (or maybe that should be wrong), then you have an ND.

What safety? None of mine have safeties. I think there is a halfcock though.

Half-cock or a hammer block is the standard for safety on derringers. Not my personal choice for a secure method.

OK, thought you meant there was a 1911 or beretta style safety. I do leave mine on the half cock though.

My liberal friend is having field day with this.

2011 is not starting out well for the 2A.