TexasCHLforum.com

When I was a stupid teenager I used to roll my eyes everytime my Mom would tell me to "avoid the every appearance of evil".
I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing". And of course these same people (even the DD's as we have learned in this thread) will get behind the wheel of a car after a few drinks. MAYBE they are right. MAYBE they will never have to live with the consequences of being wrong.
I value my wife, my kids, and my reputation enough to take MAYBE out of the equation.
Sometimes we get so caught up in what is "legal" that we forget what is "right".

Most sincere, self respecting people define in part what is right by what is legal. My understanding is, they are one in the same.(I admit, what is legal can be twisted to do something most consider wrong)

BTW, many in this country think you should not be able to own a gun, never mind carry one concealed. They think it's just not right, even though it's legal..
Is their opinion of "right" binding to you? Will you turn in your firearms now? Or will you own and carry them in accordance with the current law of the land?

That of course is a rhetoric question as we can rightly assume from your posts in this forum, we know the answer.
"not right" is a personal opinion valid to only one. "Legal" is a consensus of many and a generally agreed upon acceptable behavior, event or action.
NOTE: For the record, I don't drink and drive because I personally don't think it's right, it's also against the law.. the two combined things form my personal actions.

jmra wrote:When I was a stupid teenager I used to roll my eyes everytime my Mom would tell me to "avoid the every appearance of evil".
I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing". And of course these same people (even the DD's as we have learned in this thread) will get behind the wheel of a car after a few drinks. MAYBE they are right. MAYBE they will never have to live with the consequences of being wrong.
I value my wife, my kids, and my reputation enough to take MAYBE out of the equation.
Sometimes we get so caught up in what is "legal" that we forget what is "right".

jmra wrote:I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing".

Actually, I don't think you hear that all the time on this Forum. I've followed and participated in most if not all of these discussions due to the seemingly conflicting information we, anecdotally, understand is being given around water coolers and in some CHL classes.

Most of the threads over the past few years have centered specifically on the legality of consuming any alcohol at all while carrying. The penal code §46.035(d) states it is an offense to carry while intoxicated, and §49.01(2) defines "intoxicated." That's the law. It is what it is.

However, it's clear from the multiple discussions on the subject that the personal preference and practice of the vast majority of Texas CHL Forum members is never to carry if drinking.

As a non-drinker, I'm just as worried about people who take prescription medication and carry.

However, I'm a lot more worried about people who are off their meds and have a loaded firearm or other weapon.

bronco78 wrote:Most sincere, self respecting people define in part what is right by what is legal. My understanding is, they are one in the same.(I admit, what is legal can be twisted to do something most consider wrong)

BTW, many in this country think you should not be able to own a gun, never mind carry one concealed. They think it's just not right, even though it's legal..
Is their opinion of "right" binding to you? Will you turn in your firearms now? Or will you own and carry them in accordance with the current law of the land?

That of course is a rhetoric question as we can rightly assume from your posts in this forum, we know the answer.
"not right" is a personal opinion valid to only one. "Legal" is a consensus of many and a generally agreed upon acceptable behavior, event or action.
NOTE: For the record, I don't drink and drive because I personally don't think it's right, it's also against the law.. the two combined things form my personal actions.

jmra wrote:When I was a stupid teenager I used to roll my eyes everytime my Mom would tell me to "avoid the every appearance of evil".
I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing". And of course these same people (even the DD's as we have learned in this thread) will get behind the wheel of a car after a few drinks. MAYBE they are right. MAYBE they will never have to live with the consequences of being wrong.
I value my wife, my kids, and my reputation enough to take MAYBE out of the equation.
Sometimes we get so caught up in what is "legal" that we forget what is "right".

Your last sentence said that you don't think it's right to drink and drive and it's against the law. What many are trying to argue on this forum is that it is not against the law. By saying that you can drink and carry (using the .08 bac portion of the code) they are also saying that you can drink and drive.

I disagree that "right" and "legal" are one in the same. Slavery was legal, didn't make it right. Many laws have been put in place that hinder our rights, doesn't make them right. I could go on and on but it would be off topic so I will stop. You are right of course that each of us have a moral compass. Some just point in different directions than others.

jmra wrote:I disagree that "right" and "legal" are one in the same. Slavery was legal, didn't make it right. Many laws have been put in place that hinder our rights, doesn't make them right. I could go on and on but it would be off topic so I will stop. You are right of course that each of us have a moral compass. Some just point in different directions than others.

Well said.

Skiprr wrote:

jmra wrote:I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing".

Actually, I don't think you hear that all the time on this Forum. I've followed and participated in most if not all of these discussions due to the seemingly conflicting information we, anecdotally, understand is being given around water coolers and in some CHL classes.

Most of the threads over the past few years have centered specifically on the legality of consuming any alcohol at all while carrying. The penal code §46.035(d) states it is an offense to carry while intoxicated, and §49.01(2) defines "intoxicated." That's the law. It is what it is.

However, it's clear from the multiple discussions on the subject that the personal preference and practice of the vast majority of Texas CHL Forum members is never to carry if drinking.

"all the time" is of course a figure of speech. I'm sure I have not read every thread on this subject, but the opinion that you can have a drink or two while you carry has been in every thread I have read on the subject on this forum. Perhaps it is just a few who are very vocal.

bronco78 wrote:"not right" is a personal opinion valid to only one.

It sounds like you're talking about moral relativism.
I happen to believe in an absolute moral authority, so I have to disagree with you here.

jmra wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

jmra wrote:I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing".

Actually, I don't think you hear that all the time on this Forum....

However, it's clear from the multiple discussions on the subject that the personal preference and practice of the vast majority of Texas CHL Forum members is never to carry if drinking.

"all the time" is of course a figure of speech. I'm sure I have not read every thread on this subject, but the opinion that you can have a drink or two while you carry has been in every thread I have read on the subject on this forum. Perhaps it is just a few who are very vocal.

I say again: The law is what it is.

The question of can you have a drink and carry under the law is very different from should you have a drink and carry.

Perhaps the discussion in this Topic has shown that resurrecting "dead horse" subjects from time to time isn't necessarily a bad thing, because what seems to continually surface in the conversation about alcohol and concealed carry is that some have difficulty in seeing a divide--much less drawing a line--between legality and morality.

These two are not the same as you correctly noted, jmra. In my five years on this Forum, I'm pleased to say that I feel most of our members consider legality the lowest common denominator, and that their own, personal morality holds them to a higher standard.

You've split that divide yourself, though: in your OP you indicated the problem was that you frequently see members saying "there's nothing wrong with having a drink" while carrying. In your reply to me, you said, "the opinion that you can have a drink or two while you carry has been in every thread I have read..."

The correct answer is, "Yes." Both of those. Should you have a drink while carrying is a personal decision. Set your own moral compass.

Can you have a drink while you carry is a legal question. And the law is what it is.

Skiprr wrote: However, it's clear from the multiple discussions on the subject that the personal preference and practice of the vast majority of Texas CHL Forum members is never to carry if drinking.

I hope you are right, Skiprr. IMHO anyone who thinks that a couple of drinks will not adversely affect his judgment is deceiving himself perhaps just to justify his drinking while carrying.

If 100% of CHL holders never drank alcohol while carrying there would be no reason for this subject to keep recurring, over and over. That is, why would those who do not drink, or want to, while carrying, have any reason to ask this question? The question is not relevant for them.

Perhaps we ought to give birth to the idea of "the duty carrier."

Elmo

There are people who are poor drivers. Some of them may be worse drivers stone cold sober than other people are after one beer.

Skiprr wrote:

jmra wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

jmra wrote:I hear on this forum all the time "there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two while you're packing".

Actually, I don't think you hear that all the time on this Forum....

However, it's clear from the multiple discussions on the subject that the personal preference and practice of the vast majority of Texas CHL Forum members is never to carry if drinking.

"all the time" is of course a figure of speech. I'm sure I have not read every thread on this subject, but the opinion that you can have a drink or two while you carry has been in every thread I have read on the subject on this forum. Perhaps it is just a few who are very vocal.

I say again: The law is what it is.

The question of can you have a drink and carry under the law is very different from should you have a drink and carry.

Perhaps the discussion in this Topic has shown that resurrecting "dead horse" subjects from time to time isn't necessarily a bad thing, because what seems to continually surface in the conversation about alcohol and concealed carry is that some have difficulty in seeing a divide--much less drawing a line--between legality and morality.

These two are not the same as you correctly noted, jmra. In my five years on this Forum, I'm pleased to say that I feel most of our members consider legality the lowest common denominator, and that their own, personal morality holds them to a higher standard.

You've split that divide yourself, though: in your OP you indicated the problem was that you frequently see members saying "there's nothing wrong with having a drink" while carrying. In your reply to me, you said, "the opinion that you can have a drink or two while you carry has been in every thread I have read..."

The correct answer is, "Yes." Both of those. Should you have a drink while carrying is a personal decision. Set your own moral compass.

Can you have a drink while you carry is a legal question. And the law is what it is.

The law is what it is.

(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

The problem with the law is "intoxicated" is basically left up to the LEO's discretion. As has been stated by several others in this thread, you can be arrested (and convicted) even if you blow below 0.08. I have been told by a number of LEO's that if they stop you and smell alcohol you will not pass their sobriety test and you will take a ride. Just imagine the look on that LEO's face when you show him a CHL and tell him you are packing. Forget driving for a sec, lets say you had a couple walked out of the bar and had to use your weapon in self defense. What do you think is going to happen when one of these LEO's smells alcohol? You're going for a ride. Is it illegal? It is if the judge says it is. Only a fool puts his fate in the hands of another.

No "implied consent" when carrying.

Sit down. Shut up. Repeat.