Bolting a safe to the floor?

[Katygunnut]

5. Bolt it down to a big steel plate that can't fit through the door. Hey! I actually like this idea. A safe with 4x4 heavy gauge plate attached to the bottom would not fit through a standard door and 1/4" thick would be pretty heavy (about 160#) yet spread out the load over 16 sq.ft. That roughly doubles the weight of the safe (157#). Throw in a hundred pounds of guns and ammo and you have a 400# load (25#/sq.ft if you're upstairs) with a horrible growth on the bottom that is going to make life miserable trying to get it out. You can use an area rug to cover the plate. You'll need to pay attention to how you mount the plate so it can't be easily removed from the outside. You may also need to paint the plate and put something under it so it doesnt rust on the carpet.

I really like this idea alot. One reason I was asking about the level of effort is because I may be moving soon, but won't know for sure for another 3-6 months. I own my house, but having cut-out carpet with holes drilled into the floor may not be the best thing if I need to sell it. If you bolt the steel plate from the inside of the safe, then it shouldn't be real easy to remove without opening the safe, and would definitely keep someone from fitting the safe through a door.

[troglodyte]

5. Bolt it down to a big steel plate that can't fit through the door. Hey! I actually like this idea. A safe with 4x4 heavy gauge plate attached to the bottom would not fit through a standard door and 1/4" thick would be pretty heavy (about 160#) yet spread out the load over 16 sq.ft. That roughly doubles the weight of the safe (157#). Throw in a hundred pounds of guns and ammo and you have a 400# load (25#/sq.ft if you're upstairs) with a horrible growth on the bottom that is going to make life miserable trying to get it out. You can use an area rug to cover the plate. You'll need to pay attention to how you mount the plate so it can't be easily removed from the outside. You may also need to paint the plate and put something under it so it doesnt rust on the carpet.

I really like this idea alot. One reason I was asking about the level of effort is because I may be moving soon, but won't know for sure for another 3-6 months. I own my house, but having cut-out carpet with holes drilled into the floor may not be the best thing if I need to sell it. If you bolt the steel plate from the inside of the safe, then it shouldn't be real easy to remove without opening the safe, and would definitely keep someone from fitting the safe through a door.

I think I'd use round head carriage bolts. Heavy grade.

I've been thinking about this one trying to figure out any quirks (other than it's not actually bolted to the floor).

1. The plate adds weight, good, but have seen that even heavy safes can be easily moved with a few lengths of PVC pipe BUT if the plate is wider than the door then it doesn't really matter.

2. 1/4" plate is hard to bend but it may be possible to actually use the weight of the safe to bend the plate. Even so this is going to take some serious effort to get it to tip enough and remained balanced to let the safe do the work. A friend with a welder could run a piece of angle on perpendicular to the sides of the safe to reinforce. Or, not as good but...you could just bolt some angle on the plate and hammer the exposed threads to hinder any rachet action.

3. It would be hard to drag. Either the plate edge would be dragging or you'd have to drag by the plate. Either one doesn't sound too fun.

4. Assuming the plate didn't bend it would be harder to tip over. Especially if you keep the center of gravity a low as possible.

5. The plate moves the BGs feet further from the base. This might make it harder to manuver or tip since he has to stand further away. Maybe?

6. If nothing else it may just make it more of a hassle than it is worth and that may be all we can ask for. Put it in a closet if you can and put a locking knob on the closet door. Just one more lock and doorframe to have to go through. Even if it is a hollowcore door one more thing to have to mess with slows them down that much longer. Every layer is precious seconds they don't want to lose.

Now another thing to think of, where do you keep your tools? If you have a hacksaw, dremel, or grinder handy you may have just provided the "master key".

[WildBill]

Now another thing to think of, where do you keep your tools? If you have a hacksaw, dremel, or grinder handy you may have just provided the "master key".

If you have room, I guess you should keep them in your safe.

[WildBill]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but another topic about safes that should be discussed is "Where do you keep a copy of your combination" or "who knows the combination of your safe".

[03Lightningrocks]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but another topic about safes that should be discussed is "Where do you keep a copy of your combination" or "who knows the combination of your safe".

Funny story... I forgot my combination...(it actually happens more than I like to admit). I had my combination hidden, in case I forgot it.... OOps... I forgot where I hid the combination. So I think I am going to be saved because I had told my son where I hid it in case I forgot. Oh no!!! He forgot where I had it hidden also. After ripping my house apart, I found it. What a nightmare that was. I am not sure how or who can save me if I really mess up and just can't get the safe open. I am almost afraid to ask.

On the topic of bolting down the safe... The guy I bought the safe from in Garland told me most safes are broken into by prying them open. Of coarse the higher dollar safes... 2000.00 bucks and more are harder to pry open, but can still be gotten to. One reason I bought the safe I did was the design is suppose to be harder to pry. Who knows... that was the sales pitch at the time.

[Steve]

It's best to bolt the safe down into cement using 1/2 inch concrete bolts or larger, four of them. The way it normally works is you pre-dril the cement, kinda like you do with any other screw, then bolt down the safe using the holes at the bottom of the safe. It's nice to be able to put the safe in a corner somewhere so a burglar has less access to the sides of the safe. Also, don't space it too far away from the walls or a burger can then wedge a car jack between the wall and your safe, tearing it out of the ground. If this is upstairs, make sure to bolt the safe into a foundation support beam, not the plywood. Basically you don't want them removing the safe or tipping it over to get leverage on the door. You also don't want the safe falling on you.

Some random ramblings from a self proclaimed "safe nerd":
Make sure your safe isn't just a giant fancy looking box that only has a UL rating of "Residential Security Container" (RSC). They offer little protection. The sides of most "Residential Security Containers" can easily be punctured with common hand tools found around your home. Using the punctured hole, your valuables can then be removed. I believe someone else also pointed out that they can be easily pried open just enough to pull your valuables out. The reason being is that the steel is to thin on RSC rated "safes". It also doesn't help that when a burglar sees a safe, they know safe means goodies inside. If you just want a safe to keep your kids or curious guests out, then a RSC is fine, but if you want a good measure of burglary protection you will need a higher rated safe.

I'm not saying you need to go out and get some fancy TL-30x6 UL rated monster safe, but just find yourself a decent "B rated safe". A B rated safe is normally considered many times more secure than a RSC rated safe. There is no official testing for a "B rated safe" but it is understood in the safe industry that a B rated safe shall have at least 1/4 inch thick solid steel walls and a 1/2 inch thick solid steel door with a lock. In case your interested, the next official UL rating after RSC is TL-15 and those are much more expensive safes. To give you an idea of how heavy duty a TL-15 safe is, they require 1 inch solid steel walls at a minimum. That's a lot of heavy and expensive steel... Normally TL-15 and higher rated safes are used in jewelry stores for insurance purposes.

Don't get anything where they measure the steel thickness in gauge (that means it's way too thin) or if they don't list the thickness of the steel. Some manufactures like to list total thickness to fool you into thinking the thick fireproofing will help prevent theft, it won't. Unfortunately, I know you want to get a lightweight safe so you can easily move it later, but a good judge of a safe is how heavy it is. More steel tends to mean more protection which will be more weight. Also make sure it has a UL listed lock. Don't get a cheap "Made in China" lock, they aren't as reliable and you don't want to get locked out of your safe because the lock failed. A good safe is like a good firearm, it will last for generations and you can easily pass it down to your kids. Another random tip, don't store your ammo in your safe. If there is a fire the ammo may explode and damage all the valuables inside safe.

[CCreyeder]

Another vote for def bolting it down. Even a 1,000 lb safe is relatively easy to tip over and once the BGs get it on its back they can apply more leverage into prying it open. To bolt it down only takes a few minutes with a good drill, a sharp masonary drill bit (if going into concrete). Just make sure you dont bolt it down and THEN have the wife say... "uhh, honey, can you move it over just a bit?" lol..

[74novaman]

Another thing to consider is hardening your doors from kick ins. I found this on another forum and am seriously considering upgrading all of my doors with this stuff:
http://www.armorconcepts.com/Our-Solutions/EZ-Armor

[hankintexas]

Has anyone bolted a gun safe to the floor? I have never done this and I'm trying to understand whether this is a major undertaking.

I am trying to get a safe that is solid and secure enough to deter someone from just carrying it off, but also light enough for me to bring it home and put it in the closet (with a hand truck, etc). Right now, I'm debating between a 170 pound model and a 420 pound one. If I go with the light safe, I will need to bolt it down. This would be lesss of a priority for the heavier safe (but then I would need to bribe a friend to help me get it in place since I'm too cheap to pay the $300 delivery fee for a $600 safe).

You should bolt either of these down. Any hand truck will roll 420 pounds with ease. ( I work with safes and vaults for a living)

[hankintexas]

Now another thing to think of, where do you keep your tools? If you have a hacksaw, dremel, or grinder handy you may have just provided the "master key".

If you have room, I guess you should keep them in your safe.

I have been opening safes for 30 years. Know where I find a lot of combinations?????????? It's how I get my firearm money!!

[RttlTrap]

Has anyone bolted a gun safe to the floor? I have never done this and I'm trying to understand whether this is a major undertaking.

I am trying to get a safe that is solid and secure enough to deter someone from just carrying it off, but also light enough for me to bring it home and put it in the closet (with a hand truck, etc). Right now, I'm debating between a 170 pound model and a 420 pound one. If I go with the light safe, I will need to bolt it down. This would be lesss of a priority for the heavier safe (but then I would need to bribe a friend to help me get it in place since I'm too cheap to pay the $300 delivery fee for a $600 safe).

You should bolt either of these down. Any hand truck will roll 420 pounds with ease. ( I work with safes and vaults for a living)

Not only that, but the BGs aren't worried about damaging your floors, walls etc while pushing, pulling, or dragging it out of the house. My BIL was hit a few months ago and they drug a 500# safe through the house and broke the front door jamb getting it out. They had to have the concrete floors refinished, door re framed and hung, drywall work etc on top of the huge hit they took in jewelry and guns.

[tacticool]

I have heard stories where thieves use a sawzall to cut a hole in the side of a house, wrap chains or tow straps around a safe, and use a truck to pull it free.

Most burglars aren't that determined.

[hankintexas]

Ok, I will let you in on a secret....... Safes are like anything else. You get what you pay for. Bolting safes down is important. However, an alarm contact works great. You can have a contact placed so that chest movement or door open will trigger a duress alarm. I would (and on mine do) have a regular door contact wired into an avaliable zone and another contact placed behind as duress. When I leave the house and set my alarm, the safe is armed just like any other door in my house. If someone moves the safe, it triggers the duress and police are dispatched. It is pretty sensitive, so you don't want to swing the door aggresivly when opening during normal use. It will not only introduce you to your local police department, it will damage the hinges eventually.

This is what I do for a living.

[hankintexas]

I wonder if anyone makes "homing devices" that you could put in your safe?

yes they do. LOJACK is on a lot of our atm's

[mrvmax]

BTW, if you plan on drilling concrete, save yourself time and get a Hilti (or other brand) to drill the concrete. It will save a lot of time and grief.