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Just curious what you guys think, and how far would you go, as a CHL holder if armed, or just as an unarmed bystander, how far would you go to break up something like this?

There are many in our society that have adopted a culture that has NO self control, NO sense of reason, and will resort to savage and immature behavior to interact with others and solve disputes. These individuals are pretty easy to recognize, and especially so when they encounter each other, based on their behavior alone. I will not intervene in "savage on savage" conflict, as that's not my job, and potentially far more trouble than it's worth.

I am, however, willing to lend a hand when the savages target the rational and law abiding among the population though.

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:There are many in our society that have adopted a culture that has NO self control, NO sense of reason, and will resort to savage and immature behavior to interact with others and solve disputes. These individuals are pretty easy to recognize, and especially so when they encounter each other, based on their behavior alone. I will not intervene in "savage on savage" conflict, as that's not my job, and potentially far more trouble than it's worth.

I am, however, willing to lend a hand when the savages target the rational and law abiding among the population though.

I am not sure that this was "savage on savage". It certainly was "two savages on someone".

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Secondly, what are you doing in this part of town anyway?

I don't know what part of town she was in, but being it was a McDonald's I might have just been hungry and wanted a cheeseburger.

Well, "...you pays your money and you takes your chances...". Somebody said that

Oldgringo wrote:

austinrealtor wrote:

seamusTX wrote:What do you do after you produce a weapon and start issuing commands, and no one obeys you?

To put it bluntly, what do you think is going to happen when a white man in plain clothes pulls a gun in a crowd of angry and excited black people?

What are the friends or relatives of the combatants going to do?

Please don't call me a racist. This is a real situation that police officers often face. And the police have more legal authority behind them and can call for backup.

- Jim

EVERYONE should read and think long and hard about what Jim has written above. Very good advice.

ABSOLUTELY!

If two black women beat up on the white girl, how do you think their applauding audience is going to receive your honky heinie? Surely, you don't think yours is the only concealed gun in the joint, do you?

Secondly, what are you doing in this part of town anyway?

Sometimes you have to be in that part of town if your doing family things. Couple examples... Six Flags in Arlington. Talk about a bad part of town. How about the zoo? Seems like every zoo I have ever been to was located in an inner city ghetto. Graceland in Memphis... good luck with that one.... LOL. My family and I have been to each and every one of those areas and stopped in places where we were the only white people in the joint. I refuse to let race cause me to alter where and how I have a meal or partake in entertainment.

That white girl may have been one of their acquaintances. Maybe she was just as low class as them and made some ghetto faux pas!! Regardless, I am not Billy Bad, but I will be darned if I could just sit by and watch a person get done that way and not make an attempt to stop it. Pulling my gun would not even cross my mind. Knocking one of those animals out might have crossed my mind, but shooting them??? Not unless they forced me to. People are people and cowards are cowards... no matter what race they might be. Think about it for a minute. There was already one person man enough to say no. Heck... two. The older lady also stepped up! Did anyone jump the old white lady? NOPE! If just one more person had said stop, maybe that girl would have suffered less beating.

I am not recommending we put on our capes. I am saying that the line for me is if I am watching someone being done bodily harm. I would stand by and do nothing while the same two girls took everyones wallets at gunpoint. But once they start doing bodily harm.... Challenge Accepted... GAME ON!

The two pieces of subhuman filth who did this beating have been identified: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/04/2 ... mcdonalds/

Various thoughts:

- Interesting how nearly everyone in this thread assumes that the only two choices are to either a) do nothing except call 911, or b) use a gun (and yes I count putting your hand on your gun without drawing it as using it). When all you have is a sledge hammer, and you are presented with a finishing nail, what-to-do, what-to-do...

- Does it matter what started it? It might politically/tactically, but not in legally, I think. Assuming the white "girl" somehow provoked the incident, "self-defense" by the two black girls had long since ceased. This was a beating to inflict punishment, no doubt. The two black girls were long safe from whatever transpired earlier, and had many opportunities to break off without any risk. Assuming something had happened earlier, IMHO what appeared on the video was a new incident.

- As to what transpired earlier: the videographer has been identified as an employee of that McDonald's restaurant. I read (altho don't have the link handy) that he claims the white "girl" was actually a guy who went in the women's restroom and was ejected by the black girls. He also claims that the seizure was fake -- that as soon as the cops got there, the white person jumped up off the floor. The videographer has his own interests to serve, of course, but I have to admit that when I saw the seizure segment, I thought...hmmmm. Perhaps it was real, perhaps it was a tactic. That would not matter much as to the culpability of the two black girls.

(edited to add: found the link with the videographer's claims: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/mcd ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

- Assuming for a moment that what the videographer said is true (that the white person was a cross-dressing guy who entered the women's restroom) I would not have (much) faulted the black girls for physically ejecting him, but what transpired after that was an assault, not an "ejection" or self-defense, or what have you.

- I don't think I can categorically say I would have intervened or not intervened -- it would be based on my perception the whole thing, seeing the situation in person -- but had I intervened it would not have been with any indication that I had a gun. That's my ace in the hole if things get worse instead of better. It would have been seriously aggressive though. This was way past de-escalation by talking. I think that at that point the only way to get the two girls to back off, and keep any of their supporters in the audience from intervening on their behalf, would be to indicate that I was not intimidated by them, and was in fact ready, to borrow a phrase, "to punch back twice as hard."

A friend after seeing the video was all ready to draw and shoot the two women. (he has no gun and is not a CHL). I explained that then the police would show up and you would have two dead women and you there with a gun, facing a long prison sentence. Meanwhile the woman being beaten would have probably disappeared never to be seen again. Even the video, if it still existed would probably show you acting irrationally.

I then saw the video, and I have to say I think I would have at least tried to be as brave as the old woman, who I think is the hero in this whole thing.

The story is still evolving, but some reports show that the woman is transgender. Others say no she is a real woman. Many of the commenter's posts are amusing, as if the woman is indeed transgender the two assailants are in real trouble, otherwise it is no big deal, as its just a white woman being beaten up.

The video was posted by the McDonald's employee on youtube. He has since removed his youtube and facebook account. He has single handedly created a PR nightmare for McDonald's. Some have speculated he is unemployed now, but I suspect he has full employment with McDonald's until the law suit is finished.

It clearly shows McDonald's employees will not come to your rescue, if some of their other customers decide to go ballistic on you, but will be happy to film the whole thing for youtube and warn the perps when the cops are coming.

The manager actually did more than I was led to believe he did. But I will agree his actions did seem somewhat half-hearted.

I suspect a lot of short selling of McDonald's stock on Monday, after all, if this hits the liberal media this weekend (which some suspect will not happen unless the woman is transgender), will those who see it want to bring mom and the kids to MickyD's ever again.

There is no way I could stand by and let this happen. I would've physically forced those animals off of the victim. I would then stand my ground and defend the victim and myself against anymore advances by those two slugs and anybody that wanted to intercede on their behalf.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

austinrealtor wrote:

seamusTX wrote:What do you do after you produce a weapon and start issuing commands, and no one obeys you?

To put it bluntly, what do you think is going to happen when a white man in plain clothes pulls a gun in a crowd of angry and excited black people?

What are the friends or relatives of the combatants going to do?

Please don't call me a racist. This is a real situation that police officers often face. And the police have more legal authority behind them and can call for backup.

- Jim

EVERYONE should read and think long and hard about what Jim has written above. Very good advice.

ABSOLUTELY!

If two black women beat up on the white girl, how do you think their applauding audience is going to receive your honky heinie? Surely, you don't think yours is the only concealed gun in the joint, do you?

Secondly, what are you doing in this part of town anyway?

Sometimes you have to be in that part of town if your doing family things. Couple examples... Six Flags in Arlington. Talk about a bad part of town. How about the zoo? Seems like every zoo I have ever been to was located in an inner city ghetto. Graceland in Memphis... good luck with that one.... LOL. My family and I have been to each and every one of those areas and stopped in places where we were the only white people in the joint. I refuse to let race cause me to alter where and how I have a meal or partake in entertainment.

That white girl may have been one of their acquaintances. Maybe she was just as low class as them and made some ghetto faux pas!! Regardless, I am not Billy Bad, but I will be darned if I could just sit by and watch a person get done that way and not make an attempt to stop it. Pulling my gun would not even cross my mind. Knocking one of those animals out might have crossed my mind, but shooting them??? Not unless they forced me to. People are people and cowards are cowards... no matter what race they might be. Think about it for a minute. There was already one person man enough to say no. Heck... two. The older lady also stepped up! Did anyone jump the old white lady? NOPE! If just one more person had said stop, maybe that girl would have suffered less beating.

I am not recommending we put on our capes. I am saying that the line for me is if I am watching someone being done bodily harm. I would stand by and do nothing while the same two girls took everyones wallets at gunpoint. But once they start doing bodily harm.... Challenge Accepted... GAME ON!

Choices, we all have choices about where we eat, how and where we travel and who are friends are. We even have choices of whom we shoot and who gets a pass. Is this a great country or what?

THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT INCIDENTS!

The one that I posted earlier in this thread took place in Cleveland, Ohio, on Tuesday April 19.

The one that ELB linked to, above, with the incredibly articulate story of the victim being a transvestite or transsexual, occurred in Rosedale, Maryland (Baltimore suburb), April 18.

That is the story that is or was on the Drudge report.

These are legitimate news reports of the Maryland incident:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... f4281f6450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... 3709.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/lo ... convulsing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Just came across this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -23075797/

It took place in London.

Wow, McDonald's sure has gotten dangerous in this past week.

Pepper spray the whole mess of 'em, then get between the aggressors and the victim.

KD5NRH wrote:Pepper spray the whole mess of 'em, then get between the aggressors and the victim.

Pepper spray is contagious, you know...

texanron wrote:There is no way I could stand by and let this happen. I would've physically forced those animals off of the victim. I would then stand my ground and defend the victim and myself against anymore advances by those two slugs and anybody that wanted to intercede on their behalf.

I've worked at a bar. I carry a gun. I have some martial arts training. I'm kind of a big guy (6'4"). I'm young (24) and fit.

I would have hit the two aggressors as hard as I could (throat, other pressure points, knees) as soon as the victim hit the ground. Is it legally justifiable? Maybe. Do I care? No.

I don't have a wife, don't have any kids, and I'd like to think that I could articulately explain my actions to a jury. If it came to that.

I have zero tolerance for people who hit/kick others while they're on the ground or unable to defend themselves. Call it an outdated sense of justice. Whatever.

I also have never been a fan of using "soft hands". Based on my experience, that just gets you hurt.

If they're too caught in the moment or barbaric to leave it alone after they've floored their opponent, well, don't come crying to me when I jump in with all the physical destruction I can muster.

Would I pull a gun? Absolutely not. If stashing it in a vehicle is an option, I'll take it. If not, well, hope they can't figure out how to take off the safety before I hit them hard enough to cause some disorientation.

At the risk of insulting the female members/mods, I have no apprehension to hitting a girl who's acting like an animal.