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AndyC wrote:I don't either - but if I have any doubt about a given bullet's ability to penetrate deeply enough into a human, I'll take one that penetrates more. I'm not dying because my bullet couldn't dig deep enough and it's also very likely that at least one bullet will miss in a gunfight anyway - which would be going a lot faster than one which hit but over-penetrated.

That's why you gotta love .45

I'm curious how many of those saying they carry JHP have looked up the ballistics and test results from the various 380 rounds before coming to the decision to carry JHP, or are you carrying it because it's the conventional wisdom that you carry JHP for self defense?

The results I've seen from various tests of 380 rounds are enough to make me a little uneasy about the effectiveness of many popular JHP brands in that caliber. There are many documented instances of JHP rounds failing to expand in ballistic gelatin and with penetration depths that would only be considered marginally good enough.

Certain brands seem to perform much better than others. Corbon DPX is one that seems to fairly consistently expand in the tests and has reasonably good penetration. I would probably carry this one if I had some. Some other popular brands don't fare so well. I think it was Speer Gold Dots for example had a high percentage of rounds that failed to expand in some of the tests.

Brian

If I am shooting at someone with my .380, the odds are great that it will be at knife-fighting range or closer.
It is my belief that a jacketed-hollowpoint is going to be as equally effective as a FMJ with less chance of hitting someone else (assuming any hits are on my intended target) at up-close and personal ranges.

...I agree with Purplehood, but I live where TAM posted...I don't own a .380...

Hornady critical defense for me. Re: Energy dump being a myth.
I think a more accurate term would be energy transfer. I think we would all agree that if a bullet stops inside someone then all of that bullets energy has been successfully transferred from the bullet to the BG. If it penetrates through, then it was not all transferred, and for all intents and purposes, wasted.

Re: JHP's Failure to open.
Yes it does happen on occasion. So do FTF's, FTE's etc. There is no way of knowing that every time you pull the trigger it will go bang, and the bullet will preform exactly as it is suppose to regardless of brand. Some brands have proven to be more consistent than others, but still a chance of failure. If the bullet doesn't open up, then it is simply acting as a full metal jacket as opposed to JHP, so what does that matter.

Keep in mind, I'm no ballistics expert.

...in a truck-mounted cannon....nebbermind....

I'm not concerned about a .380 JHP not opening; I'm concerned that it will open too quickly and limit the depth of penetration.

This is my concern as well.

Sputz

AndyC wrote: As for the FMJ's energy being wasted - heck, who cares? It punched a hole right through the guy's chest, took out his aorta, clipped the spine and exited out of his back. Am I going to moan about "wasted energy" because it's still traveling at, say, 20 fps after exiting his back? Come on - really?

Well, we could argue for days on the "kinetic energy smokscreen" so I'll let that one go. But, suppose you shoot a BG, and the bullet travels through him and hits an innocent by-standard? You get sued for saving their life. Your defense to the judge would be??? "But did you see how much tissue I tore up in the bad guy"? As opposed to "I made every effort to prevent this by using hollow point rounds which are known to penetrate less than FMJ's.

Guess it's a personal preference. I'll choose JHP's.

Sputz wrote:

I'm not concerned about a .380 JHP not opening; I'm concerned that it will open too quickly and limit the depth of penetration.

This is my concern as well.

Sputz

Open up too quickly because of the "4 layers of denom" the perp was wearing on a summer day in Texas?

No the 5 layers of Mexican food fat in the gut area and the giant Texas belt buckle that could get in the way.

Sputz

I remember the first time I read Dr. Fackler's report. It was an eye opener. It was after reading it that I decided that (for me), fat and relatively slow bullets were a better bet than small and relatively fast bullets..............and then there's the .357 magnum.

That's why my carry guns have mostly been chambered in .45 ACP, and the two that are not are chambered in 9mm and .357—both having decent to good penetration with good bullet performance.

Sputz wrote:No the 5 layers of Mexican food fat in the gut area and the giant Texas belt buckle that could get in the way.

Sputz

...now this is from ICE CREAM and the buckle's Medium sized...thankyouberrymuch!!!

The Annoyed Man wrote:I remember the first time I read Dr. Fackler's report. It was an eye opener. It was after reading it that I decided that (for me), fat and relatively slow bullets were a better bet than small and relatively fast bullets..............and then there's the .357 magnum.

That's why my carry guns have mostly been chambered in .45 ACP, and the two that are not are chambered in 9mm and .357—both having decent to good penetration with good bullet performance.

...TAM, I agree, and I've carried old and slow until I am...

Andy knows his stuff. He is correct in his statements about under-penetration and the myth of the “Energy Dump” at handgun velocities. Rifle velocities are a little different but penetration is still a must.

A frangible bullet or thin jacketed HP at high speed will make a horrible wound in man or animal, and they will probably die from that type of injury- eventually. In order to put someone or something down for good as quickly as possible you must have enough penetration to reach and take out vital organs, load bearing bones and or major blood bearing vessels. Unless of course you can hit the central nervous system or brain stem.

Most of the premium HP bullets available today have a pretty good expansion to penetration ratio; some like the Glaser do not. A heavier bullet with some expansion is a good compromise, like the Speer Gold Dot 230gr 45ACP ammo or the same bullet in 180gr S&W40.

With a 380ACP I would opt for penetration over expansion.