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Like I said, I'm sorry if you didn't like the examples I gave RPB.

Good day.

I don't really want this to devolve into examples of different cultures/religions doing bad things. Such notions are certainly subjective over time anyway. One thing that is true is that western civilization have evolved in terms of law, culture, and technology over the last three centuries by leaps and bounds. Islam hasn't and can't.

Cobra Medic wrote: Also Islam is around 14 centuries old. Maybe examples from Christianity at similar age or developmental stage are relevant. Maybe not but maybe. It's something to think about.

I might be inclined to agree with you had those two world views not been interacting together since the start. If say they had been on different continents and had nothing to do with each other it would be an interesting case study. However Islamic and Christian cultures have been interacting together for a very long time. It has been a give and take. I could give historical examples of the give and take but that would be a book. These two cultures have sat side by side, so I don't give a pass to them not learning to be less brutal along with the rest of humanity.

Islam has contributed great things to society, if we are going to teach about Islam we should mention those things. However most ardent supporters of it have also been guilty of terrible oppression and brutality and have continued in that brutality up to today that should not be left out.

My only real point is that no "culture" should be portrayed or given the attribute as THE culture of Peace, such as they are promoting Islam to be. ... most all have had skirmishes, and factions which were more radical warriors.

Always been that way
Joshua and
Amalek
Gibeonites
Makkedah.
etc etc etc

Always will be
Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

My objection is to promoting Islam (or any religion, for that matter)as the "culture of peace". No "culture" can claim responsibility or should be ascribed an attribute because a few claiming to subscribe to that culture's beliefs are violent, but when a greater percentage of them are violent and that's what their teachings contain, then it certainly can be concluded that overall it isn't a culture of peace.

Past vs. Present:

MOST "cultures" had a history of violence, MOST have settled down to a greater understanding and ARE peaceful now. Islam, being a "new kid on the block" comparatively, isn't one which is as "settled down" as MOST older "cultures". Most older "cultures" have settled down and "tolerate" others, the "recent" cultures haven't settled down yet.

mamabearCali wrote:

Cobra Medic wrote: Also Islam is around 14 centuries old. Maybe examples from Christianity at similar age or developmental stage are relevant. Maybe not but maybe. It's something to think about.

I might be inclined to agree with you had those two world views not been interacting together since the start. If say they had been on different continents and had nothing to do with each other it would be an interesting case study. However Islamic and Christian cultures have been interacting together for a very long time. It has been a give and take. I could give historical examples of the give and take but that would be a book. These two cultures have sat side by side, so I don't give a pass to them not learning to be less brutal along with the rest of humanity.

Islam has contributed great things to society, if we are going to teach about Islam we should mention those things. However most ardent supporters of it have also been guilty of terrible oppression and brutality and have continued in that brutality up to today that should not be left out.

Agreed. I have read the Qur'an and the Hadith. The Qur'an says that the sons of Abraham and the followers of the Prophet Jesus have nothing to fear from Allah. But then it goes on to demand the "removal" of infidels (infidels being anyone other than the followers of Islam) from the land. While the Qur'an speaks in general terms about removing infidels from the land the Hadith, ostensibly penned by Muhammad's nephew is where one finds the specifics of Jihad and the "rewards". Neither can be considered a book of peace except by the most liberal of interpretations. Demonstrably, the Sharia are not peaceful, even with their own people.

Most of the "great" things that have been contributed by Islam are actually things preceding it by a couple of millennium and attributable to the Magi, I.E. astral navigation, mathematics, et al. So a lot of what we have been taught came out of Islam is rightly creditable to their predecessors.

Indoctrination/Socialization/Mental conditioning-training used to be cub scouts, boy scouts, Patriotism, saying/hearing the Pledge and prayer each morning at school etc
In other countries it was school uniforms similar to their military etc.
See :
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=49016&p=601777#p601777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's also a study that kids attending 4th of July parades, seeing American Flags etc are more likely to become Republicans ...