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terryg wrote:

george wrote:In west Texas, we always considered it polite to walk to the rear of the car.

just sayin'.

But usually we were so lonely, and happy for the chance to talk with someone.

I understand this. In fact, when I was younger, I would always exit the vehicle and go meet the cop at the rear of the car. Until one time, as I was getting out, I was told - very sternly - to 'stay in the vehicle'.

The LEO asking you to join them outside the vehicle seems perfectly legit to me. Expecting you to disarm (and thereby handle your gun) before exiting seems like a recipe for disaster. What would he/she do if they happened to see the gun in the process?

This. I shudder at putting my gun on the floorboard and that is about the only place that I could think of that would be safe to put it if I had to disarm (and fairly quickly) before getting out of a car. I don't like the prospects of an LEO watching me reach into my IWB, which would probably cause me to lean to my left and then lean forward to put the gun on the floor. That has got to look suspicious. I'd prefer to take my chances with him being mad at me for leaving it in the holster.

My Father-in-law was from Louisiana and he would not drive through Louisiana.

terryg wrote: Expecting you to disarm (and thereby handle your gun) before exiting seems like a recipe for disaster. What would he/she do if they happened to see the gun in the process?

My thought exactly...I would have done the same as the OP...but now, maybe different.

EggBanjo, old friend, were you wearing your special "Waiting Room tactical flip-flops" last deployed while stalking your mailbox?

glbedd53 wrote:My Father-in-law was from Louisiana and he would not drive through Louisiana.

A wise man.

I haven't been to LA in 20+ yrs myself.

Napoleonic law is confusing.

I prefer anything west of TX when traveling, except KA of course.

strider67 wrote: EggBanjo, old friend, were you wearing your special "Waiting Room tactical flip-flops" last deployed while stalking your mailbox?

LOL, thanks I needed that.. My toes get chilly this time of year so regular old tennis shoes and a tshirt for me. There is one thing I didn't mention that may also be a factor in the initial reaction of the trooper and I'll mention it now because it may have some relevance. I'm not a small guy, and the trooper was. I stand at 6'6" and 300 lbs while the trooper was about 5'10" and maybe 175. I wouldn't harm a fly but first impressions may sometimes come off the wrong way just by default. I do try to smile a lot but that doesn't always help :)

So many things to respond to:

The Snide remark about TX troopers getting shot. .. : well it's opinion of his for sure.. BUT I can say, if i was so inclined to be a murderous person towards a LEO, Im more dangerous to them getting out of my vehicle, then I am in my vehicle contained. So basing what I am, what I know to be true, that LA trooper is not correct. But I'll give. perhaps in general he is correct.. What say you TX troopers?

To the you should have left it in the car..: Again, it's an opinion, though we have now read not LA law at all. And again,, really? A trooper wants to wants me do some - furious moving around in a vehicle THEN get out and come see him? Sounds like a ready made excuse for PC.. Not to mention, Im not leaving a weapon in my vehicle unattended openly.. period. Add to it, if I had anyone but my wife or sons in the car, Id be very uncomfortable leaving my weapon in there as well.

I always have switched lanes when a vehicle is on the side of the road, so the new TX law did not really effect my mind set much.. However I do take exception to the numerous times I have seen LEO vehicles with lights on, and no other person, vehicle around.. and said static vehicle pull over a passing car, with the sole reason being to issue a failure to yield violation... A very good friend in a local PD, confirmed there are two other local PD's that have been doing this at the direction of leadership.. To Make a" point" on the new law. While I did not write the law, or sit on the committee that worked it.. My guess is, that was not the intent, but rater to safe guard emergency workers WHILE ENGAGED IN AN emergency (or other assistance / discussion) Not as a "lesson tool" or ticket revenue generation tool.

I despise the disarm provision, not to mention the select practice within a PD. But I'll give at the possible need for the rule.. ok fine,, but AFTER I have been double proven to be a good guy (background check for CHL, and run again for wants / warrants during stop) Why do SOME LEO still find the need to treat us like a criminal and or a weapon is a dirty diaper like object?? Did he ask about other weapons? I have been stopped only once since getting a TX CHL, was not disarmed, not even a blink of an eye after being informed, and asking me to not draw it... .. The other time I had a LEO run in was in Austin where I moved to an officer and informed him of a crime taking place.. I was ordered to stand fast while he called another officer to go look.. 10 min later when the other one showed up... he found nothing but a broken car window. what ever the thief was after and the person himself ,, they were gone (really what did they expect on a smash and grab.. 10min? thats a life time).

I was questioned and asked for ID by LEO one.. handed Dl and CHL over, informed I was armed, I was disarmed, and he went to set it on MY HOOD, to which I asked him sternly not to set that weapon on my paint..

The point??.... I was not searched,,, I did not offer up the BUG..The LEO was less safe then he thought...his personnel decision to exercise his lawful right to disarm me,, did not accomplish the intent. After all the 20 question games.. Did I know the owner of the car? Did I own the car? did I own the property in the car that was taken? 17 other questions lastly with.. did I need a case number? I ask for what... Well so you can make an insurance claim.. I say for what? Umm the stolen property... Again, officer, not my car, no idea what if anything was stolen, i told you all that.. Oh, ya, thats right, ok then, go sit in your car.,The other LEO returned my weapon .. set it on the passenger seat..said not to load it till they were back in the patrol cars.. but he would stay there till I loaded and re holster if I wanted? IOW.. that LEO had no issue with my CC, and did not agree with me being disarmed . I smiled and said no worry's everyone is safe.. The LC9 in my jacket pocket is still handy and loaded as is the rifle tucked under the lip of the back seat. He shook his head and walked off.

Having the violator approach you before you have cleared the car is tactically weak as I see it. Especially if you're standing in front of your car...the only cover you have on a stop. I bet alot of trafficking is missed by doing so. Also yelling at a compliant person because you're angry is unprofessional, as is rolling eyes and what not.

I don't care what any LEO says to me after the fact, I would not be disarming myself before getting out of a car unless I was given explicit instructions to do so.

gigag04 wrote:Having the violator approach you before you have cleared the car is tactically weak as I see it. Especially if you're standing in front of your car...the only cover you have on a stop. I bet alot of trafficking is missed by doing so. Also yelling at a compliant person because you're angry is unprofessional, as is rolling eyes and what not.

...speakin' from 20 years' experience in the state...they got a lot of that "unprofessional" stuff in LA...at all levels...

...Texas, on the other hand, seems that they give their LEOs a double shot of Texas pride while in the academy...a world of difference...in my limited 21 years experience here...

Update: I called the Natchitoches ticketing department again to follow up about deferred adjudication and the extra $30 charge. I spoke with someone and inquired about the deferred adjudication program for out of state drivers like myself and was told that I just need to call in on Monday and speak to someone (I'll leave her name out here) specifically and they could get the ticket adjusted to a non-moving violation. I was caught off guard, but was then provided her phone number and told to speak with her and she could help me. In disbelief I was very thankful and asked just one last time 'So there is a program for out of state drivers that receive this type of citation (failure to yield to an emergency vehicle)?' and was told that the lady I speak with on Monday will be able to help me. Before i could get out my next question about the additional $30 the call ended. I'm not going to push my luck today and call back again but if the ticket will be downgraded then the $30 additional charge bit kind of goes away. We'll see. More to come next week.

If I recall, in the state of Louisiana, it is unlawful to pass an emergency vehicle (while emergency lights are flashing) while in the performance of their duties. I leaned that once when stopped by a LA trooper who stated that I should have stopped on the right side of the road (break down lane) until he was finished with business. This was on I-10 outside of Lake Charles.

My response was, for how long. Was told "until the energency vehicle has left, or turned off their emergency lights". Granted that was several years ago, and the laws may have changed.

Of note, I said, that no one does, and he replied, "I know".

The play by play continues . . .
Talked to a nice lady in the Natchitoches District Attorney's office as I was instructed to do so last week.
My ticket is still not in 'the system' so I was instructed to call back in two weeks. She did say that we'd most likely be able to reduce the ticket but not much more detail. I remain optimistic. I'll be calling again on Monday 1/16 :)

Here is the statute:

Louisianna RS 32.125

§125. Procedure on approach of an authorized emergency vehicle; passing a parked emergency vehicle

A. Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of audible or visual signals, or of a police vehicle properly and lawfully making use of an audible signal only, the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of the highway clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.
B. When any vehicle making use of any visual signals as authorized by law, including the display of alternately flashing amber or yellow warning lights, is parked on or near the highway, the driver of every other vehicle shall:
(1) When driving on an interstate highway or other highway with two or more lanes traveling in the same direction, yield the right-of-way by making a lane change into a lane not adjacent to the parked vehicle, if possible with due regard to safety and traffic conditions. If a lane change is not possible, the driver shall slow to a reasonably safe speed.
(2) Maintain a safe speed for road conditions, if unable or unsafe to change lanes, or driving on a two-lane road or highway.
C. This Section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway.
D. Any person who violates the provisions of this Section shall, upon conviction, be subject to a fine not to exceed two hundred dollars.

Acts 1962, No. 310, §1. Amended by Acts 1980, No. 160, §1; Acts 2001, No. 583, §1; Acts 2008, No. 429, §1, eff. June 21, 2008; Acts 2008, No. 746, §1.

Interestingly, reasonable speed is not defined if you are not able to move over safely. Many states require you to drop a specific amount under the legally posted speed limit (like 10 or 15 under the posted speed.)

Little update.
1/17 - MLK holiday, can't speak to anyone
1/18 - Left voicemail, no return phone call
1/20 - Talked to someone who said the lady I need to speak with only works Monday - Wednesday
1/23 - Person I need to speak with is out of the office today

Here's to hoping persistence eventually pays off.

Keith B wrote:Here is the statute:

Louisianna RS 32.125

§125. Procedure on approach of an authorized emergency vehicle; passing a parked emergency vehicle

A. Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of audible or visual signals, or of a police vehicle properly and lawfully making use of an audible signal only, the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of the highway clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.
B. When any vehicle making use of any visual signals as authorized by law, including the display of alternately flashing amber or yellow warning lights, is parked on or near the highway, the driver of every other vehicle shall:
(1) When driving on an interstate highway or other highway with two or more lanes traveling in the same direction, yield the right-of-way by making a lane change into a lane not adjacent to the parked vehicle, if possible with due regard to safety and traffic conditions. If a lane change is not possible, the driver shall slow to a reasonably safe speed.
(2) Maintain a safe speed for road conditions, if unable or unsafe to change lanes, or driving on a two-lane road or highway.
C. This Section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway.
D. Any person who violates the provisions of this Section shall, upon conviction, be subject to a fine not to exceed two hundred dollars.

Acts 1962, No. 310, §1. Amended by Acts 1980, No. 160, §1; Acts 2001, No. 583, §1; Acts 2008, No. 429, §1, eff. June 21, 2008; Acts 2008, No. 746, §1.

Interestingly, reasonable speed is not defined if you are not able to move over safely. Many states require you to drop a specific amount under the legally posted speed limit (like 10 or 15 under the posted speed.)

Two problems accrue:

First: "reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder. There are people in this world who think that a reasonable person would not venture into the atmosphere supported by scraps of silk and wicker, propelled by hot air, and one of those people might be in a position of authority. This being campaign season, we are seeing plenty of those supported by nothing at all and propelled by hot air. But the statute probably could not set a speed limit because what is a "reasonable" speed would be markedly less reasonable on wet pavement, and truly ridiculous on ice.

As far as pulling over and stopping, that is only "on approach" which pretty much means the emergency vehicle is moving toward you, and although most people don't do it, having been a fireman for 17 years, I think that is perfectly reasonable. A few years ago (ok, decades) I developed and tried to patent a device that would be placed in every vehicle which would sound an alarm when an emergency vehicle approached with sirens going, and override loud radios and stereos. For a variety of reasons, including that it was already within the state of the art, my attorney advised me that pursuing a patent would be useless.

The cop that said that you were supposed to pull over and stop and wait for the emergency to be over, was misinterpreting the statute, and he would be the one to assess reasonability too.

Second: Many cops sit where the stop occurred to fill out (paperwork) long after the stop is over, and leave their lights on for safety, but that does not absolve the approaching driver from changing lanes or slowing, even if you can't see any other cars around. Suppose instead of a stop, the officer was parked in such a way as to protect someone or something that had been hit by a car, or to shield a dangerous situation, such as a pothole or washout that might go otherwise unobserved, it would be prudent to follow the law, if not common sense, and give the vehicle with the lights flashing the benefit of the doubt and pull over or slow down.