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Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:08 pm
by tallmike
steveincowtown wrote:speedsix wrote:...no different from someone being a jerk to a waitress...or a loan officer...or a barber...or your wife...in this life, things can be easy...or not...depending on your attitude...basic life lesson...
How is exercising your rights being a jerk?
I think you will find that it is not what you do but how you do it. Most officers are not interested in harassing the average law abiding citizen, they are looking for criminals. When the officer stops you and you act like a weenie, the officer (being human) assumes you don't want to talk to him for a reason. Being curious, he wants to know what that reason is and satisfy himself that it is not because you have a dead body in the trunk.
Are there weenie cops? Absolutely but the vast majority of them are reasonable folks trying to do a job. Just like the vast majority of citizens are reasonable folks who don't mind being friendly to the cops, even as they are writing us a ticket, but we also have weenies in our midst. When a weenie cop comes into contact with a weenie citizen it generally makes the news.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:15 pm
by Thomas
Bullwhip wrote:gigag04 wrote:Sure, you can leave....subject to as many conditions as I can recall at the moment.
Don't walk on the street where sidewalk is provided. TC552.006
Don't pull away from being parked without using your turn signal. TC 545.104
Make sure your license plate doesn't have a dealer plate trim on the LP. TC 502.409
Don't have bald tires. TC 547.612
You get the idea. I can move from consent contact to detention real fast if I want to.
"Contempt of cop" charges are why so many people are starting to really really dislike police.
No offense, but your not helping the police PR.
I agree.
What also gets me is police officers that say "ignorance of the law is no excuse", yet they are ignorant of the laws that protect citizens from the police.
I'm sure it's just the 5% (or less) that give the rest a bad name, but nothing stops the 95% from fixing the other 5%.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:59 pm
by speedsix
...the WAY you excercise your rights denotes the attitude...the manner in which you speak...your choice of words...you can tell a public servant "NO" or refuse to let him search, etc. in a mature, even manner...or in an inflammatory, rude, and challenging manner...and get the results of whichever you choose...
...Thomas, your last sentence nails it...the good ole boys covering up for each other is a dinosaur thing...professional law enforcement officers and organizations will deal with the "5%ers" for the good of the rest...
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:32 pm
by C-dub
speedsix wrote:...no different from someone being a jerk to a waitress...or a loan officer...or a barber...or your wife...in this life, things can be easy...or not...depending on your attitude...basic life lesson...
...you can get a lot of slack on small infractions...or not...been there, done that...gigag04's right on...
...and then you hear: "Why didn't the police DO SOMETHING..." Cops, unlike politicians, don't live by the latest opinion polls...they do what it takes to get the job done...
I wouldn't do it, but I don't understand what the problem is.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 pm
by steveincowtown
speedsix wrote:...the WAY you excercise your rights denotes the attitude...the manner in which you speak...your choice of words...you can tell a public servant "NO" or refuse to let him search, etc. in a mature, even manner...or in an inflammatory, rude, and challenging manner...and get the results of whichever you choose
Agreed Speed, tone on both parts is important. I am sure no public servant deserves to be belittled or talk down to as much as I sure no citizen does either.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:53 pm
by gigag04
So...person tries to flee (leave) when I'm trying to contact them for a transportation code violation...this makes me a jerk and is bad PR?
Some of you have absolutely not a clue what police work entails or how these things play out in real life.
One of my favorite times at work is when a crack dealer jaywalks. I realize finding minor violations to harass drug dealers and burglars is off of your radars, but it's how this job works and it's fun. People slinging crack don't just stick around when cops are in an area. They like to non chalantly walk off. Knowing simple violations to get a valid car/person stop is fundamental to interdiction.
I deal with such contacts on a daily basis at work. I've already put two drug dealers in jail this month. Where's the PR campaign there?
Not sure how bad cops came up in the post.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:10 pm
by speedsix
...it didn't...one lightly worded reference to a weenie cop and a coupla mentions about fishing...neither one was derogatory in context......nobody said anything made a cop a jerk...I used the word jerk and if you'll re-read it didn't relate to the officer, but to the citizen...grab a donut and a hot cuppa and calm a bit...
...not only do MOST of us know and understand that our LEOs use "trivial pursuits" to solve problems that are too important to let go unsolved, but MOST of us approve...if it's legal...use it...same as citizens use every break they can get to make it through the day...
...the dirty license plate and burned-out taillight and jaywalking ordinances are just as helpful now as they were 40 years ago...
...to those few amongst us who DON'T understand...it's no more wrong for a cop to use a little quirk in the law to enforce it, than for us to use a little quirk in the law to allow us to do something we wish to do or need to do...example being the 30.06 sign law...if their posting almost right protects us...then a minor infraction of a law is fair game to get the LEOs a closer look at a situation...in neither case am I advocating doing something illegal...just using THE LAW to its fullest advantage as regarding our situation...
...I listened to dozens of folks I'd stopped for something THEY thought unimportant telling me I oughta be out there catching REAL criminals...my answer was "I agree...instead, you've made it necessary for me to spend my time dealing with YOU"...I didn't get too many Christmas cards, either...oh, well...save a tree...
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:01 pm
by JP171
Gig, actually harassing a drug dealer isn't off my radar, I just do it differently than you do, the law says I have to treat them to standards of care, I do NOT have to be nice. If they are in my bus that means if they need an IV I use the largest cath I have on board and dig around a bit before I hit the vein. I do understand that LEO's have a difficult job and usually deal with either people that are angry for being stopped or the real criminal element(that being those who break the law on purpose), what I don't understand is why some LEO's treat everyone they come into contact with as the latter of the 2, it may be that they are the 5% and it may not. I get stopped often because of the motorcyle I ride (crotch rocket) and its the same idea the few give the many a bad name, alot of the stops I get are just to see if I am going to run and yes I have had several tell me that is actually why they stopped me, I don't run ever! I just feel that some of the questions are of the fishing type. Questions about where I was and what I was doing, or without any indication of ETOH asking have you been drinking, really makes me want to ask the cop if he/she has been eating donuts again. If before anything is asked or reason given the LEO has an attitude towards me I become intractable, I will be just as polite as the officer is, stooopid questions get stooopid answers. Gents that are LEO's I am not trying to anger you, by the same token I do expect some if nothing else politeness from a LEO. During my time in Iraq, I had to treat the prisoners with dignity and respect and the population of the country as well, this was in a war zone and most times I think I was more polite to them than some of the LEO's that I encounter here at home in a NON combat environment.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:21 pm
by steveincowtown
JP171 wrote: If before anything is asked or reason given the LEO has an attitude towards me I become intractable, I wOill be just as polite as the officer is, stooopid questions get stooopid answers. Gents that are LEO's I am not trying to anger you, by the same token I do expect some if nothing else politeness from a LEO.
This.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 pm
by C-dub
gigag04 wrote:So...person tries to flee (leave) when I'm trying to contact them for a transportation code violation...this makes me a jerk and is bad PR?
Some of you have absolutely not a clue what police work entails or how these things play out in real life.
One of my favorite times at work is when a crack dealer jaywalks. I realize finding minor violations to harass drug dealers and burglars is off of your radars, but it's how this job works and it's fun. People slinging crack don't just stick around when cops are in an area. They like to non chalantly walk off. Knowing simple violations to get a valid car/person stop is fundamental to interdiction.
I deal with such contacts on a daily basis at work. I've already put two drug dealers in jail this month. Where's the PR campaign there?
Not sure how bad cops came up in the post.
Gigag04, seriously, I do respect all LEOs until they give me a reason not to. And even then, while I may not have any respect for someone in authority, I'll still obey all of their lawful orders.
To me, fleeing and leaving are two different things. Your contact with someone for an actual violation certainly wouldn't make you a jerk. Making contact with someone who has not violated anything wouldn't either. I think preventing someone from leaving who hasn't done anything, that you know of, wrong would and might also put you at risk for a civil rights violation law suit.
Even the judge from the OPs link stated that had the DUI guy could have just driven away. And one of the guys here, Alexrex20, related a story where, not having done anything wrong, an officer was asking him to get out of the car because he was waiting for a friend. I have to wonder where that officer would have taken that contact if he had complied. Probably no where, but there still wasn't any reason to ask him to get out.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm
by Lambda Force
We have posts by Texas cops saying you're not allowed to drive away in Texas.
I wonder if it's actually legal to drive away in the original story or the judge was smoking funny cigarettes.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:32 pm
by speedsix
...actually, we don't have posts by Texas cops saying you're not allowed to drive away in Texas...unless I missed something reading the entire thread twice...we DO have a post by a Texas cop saying it's legal to drive away...unless he has another matter he needs to discuss with you...
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:02 pm
by Lambda Force
speedsix wrote:...actually, we don't have posts by Texas cops saying you're not allowed to drive away in Texas...unless I missed something reading the entire thread twice...we DO have a post by a Texas cop saying it's legal to drive away...unless he has another matter he needs to discuss with you...
Unless the citizen in the original story is Kreskin (or you, maybe) how does the citizen read the cop's mind to know if he has the right to leave? The judge conveniently ignored that question too. I wonder why. That's really convenient for the courts. Too convenient. The citizen is Obamned if he does and Obamned if he doesn't. I think that's intentional.
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:12 pm
by speedsix
Lambda Force wrote:speedsix wrote:...actually, we don't have posts by Texas cops saying you're not allowed to drive away in Texas...unless I missed something reading the entire thread twice...we DO have a post by a Texas cop saying it's legal to drive away...unless he has another matter he needs to discuss with you...
Unless the citizen in the original story is Kreskin (or you, maybe) how does the citizen read the cop's mind to know if he has the right to leave? The judge conveniently ignored that question too. I wonder why. That's really convenient for the courts. Too convenient. The citizen is Obamned if he does and Obamned if he doesn't. I think that's intentional.
...I don't think a reasonable person in ANY state would assume that once a police officer approached them at 11:30 at night in a parking lot and wanted to talk, it would be WISE to drive off...even though it might be legal...this guy had dunked his reasoning powers in alcohol...I think the judges were way off on this opinion...(that ain't MY headbanger waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down there...)
Re: Try driving away from a cop in Texas...
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:20 pm
by Lambda Force
speedsix wrote:I think the judges were way off on this opinion...
