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wgoforth wrote:There is NO risk in carry to church. 25% of the preachers I know carry. Anywhere there is a 30.06 you cannot carry. And YES there is a difference in that vs the alcohol. The definition for impairment is one of TWO components... .08% OR physical impairment. DPS expresses a belief you are impaired at first drink sufficiently to not carry. There is not such an area of judgement realm in regard to church carry. They are either posted or not. Not debating truth or lack of on that, but pointing out that there is a difference with that an church carry.

Right. That's why there are no threads started by people asking if it's legal. No uncertainty there.

Like I said a couple times already, you guys are free to make your own choices. Just know the risk. I'm done explaining.

Alf wrote:

wgoforth wrote:There is NO risk in carry to church. 25% of the preachers I know carry. Anywhere there is a 30.06 you cannot carry. And YES there is a difference in that vs the alcohol. The definition for impairment is one of TWO components... .08% OR physical impairment. DPS expresses a belief you are impaired at first drink sufficiently to not carry. There is not such an area of judgement realm in regard to church carry. They are either posted or not. Not debating truth or lack of on that, but pointing out that there is a difference with that an church carry.

Right. That's why there are no threads started by people asking if it's legal. No uncertainty there.

Like I said a couple times already, you guys are free to make your own choices. Just know the risk. I'm done explaining.

Just it..there is NO risk in church carry. Been legal since 1997, preachers do it every day. NO risk. I know you have said it a couple of times already, but repeating error doesn't make it suddenly become truth.

Alf wrote:Right. That's why there are no threads started by people asking if it's legal. No uncertainty there.

Like I said a couple times already, you guys are free to make your own choices. Just know the risk. I'm done explaining.

Uh, actually there are plenty because of the way the statues are written and people not reading all the way down to section (i).

And, yes, everyone has a choice to make on when and where they carry, but I would NEVER recomend someone doesn't carry where it is 100% legal. There is no risk.

Guys, please tell me that I didn't go away for a couple of hours and some alien from another planet (Alf?) came on and said he recommends people not carry to church????

Alf, most of the others around here know my history, let me give you the short story, I lived in Colorado Springs when some idiot decided to shoot up New Life church. Not my church. I was my Doctor's church, I'm a homeschooler, we're a small community, I knew of the family who lost their daughters to the shooter, my doctor tended the girls. Read up on the shootings, then decide if folks shouldn't carry. I spent hours fielding phone calls from family and friends. Within weeks every church in the area had an unofficial security committee. No one was the same. I had my CHL within 2 months, up to that point I let the men take care of that, I'd always felt safe at church.

Alf wrote:

Wes wrote:further down there is a section that reads

"(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."

That's the actual law but what happens when you have a cop that didn't read the law. It's like having one beer when carrying. It's not illegal if you're not intoxicated but you're gambling the cop knows the law. That's why I tell everyone not to carry in church. It's better to err on the side of caution.

I mean no offense to Alf whatsoever.

This is one example of an argument that I see on these boards all the time in relation to invalid gun buster signs, etc. The argument seems to be that we should make sure that we limit our actions so that we don't somehow do something that some misinformed LEO somewhere could possibly think is illegal. By extension, you probably shouldn't go to church at all. A LEO could possibly think that setting foot in a religious house of worship is illegal since it offends Atheists. Also, no driving, no walking down the street, etc. Best to just stay bunkered up in your house.

I'm sure there are some LEO's who are ignorant of various laws. However, I happen to believe that the vast majority of Texas LEO's are actually knowledgable of the laws that they are sworn to uphold. I am not going to give up attending church on the small possibility that I might be the "test case" for a law that is completely unambiguous. I might also be the "test case" that proves eating meat is not a crime. I'm not giving up BBQ either.

Can Alf or anyone else please tell me exactly how many cases we had in the past 1-2 years of a licensed CHL holder being arrested solely because they legally carried to church (no valid 30.06 posted, etc)? Have there even been any cases of this happening?

you're gambling the cop knows the law. That's why I tell everyone not to carry in church. It's better to err on the side of caution.

what happens when you have a cop that didn't read the law.

Oh my, what if the cop doesn't read a sign closely and notice the blue sign at the restaurant, convenience store, Walmart, Drug store etc etc etc says "unlicensed possession" and thinks it means everyone?

I think I have more confidence in Law Enforcement than to think they can't read, granted not ALL understand, or keep up to date, but I'd bet many do ... and how many of the ones I speak to are aware I'm armed anyway?

basing your actions on what you think others (ie cops) might think and do instead of basing them on what the law says is a good way to encourage the antis to take away the ability to do said things.

Katygunnut wrote:Can Alf or anyone else please tell me exactly how many cases we had in the past 1-2 years of a licensed CHL holder being arrested solely because they legally carried to church (no valid 30.06 posted, etc)? Have there even been any cases of this happening?

There have been exactly zero cases.

WildBill wrote:

Katygunnut wrote:Can Alf or anyone else please tell me exactly how many cases we had in the past 1-2 years of a licensed CHL holder being arrested solely because they legally carried to church (no valid 30.06 posted, etc)? Have there even been any cases of this happening?

There have been exactly zero cases.

Isn't that the same number as this? posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=658690" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Been a while since somebody stirred the pot that much in their first hour of membership.

jmra wrote:Been a while since somebody stirred the pot that much in their first hour of membership.

I think 15 posts in one day, mostly dealing with use of alcohol has got to be some sort of record doesn't it? If I were off the suspicious sort, I might be tempted to think a mole or a troll. I am thankful I am not of that sort...

dang, I think on my first day I posted maybe 2 or 3?

If I'd realized it was his first day I probably wouldn't have gotten so worked up, sorry about that.

On April First too.

I was carrying when I got married (in a church) and so was my wife and the preacher, my best man and most everyone in attendance--and that was twenty years ago.

Been carrying in church ever since.

Lot of money changes hands, lots of pretty women, nice cars, jewelry. . . everything a scumbag criminal looks for and that might think is easy pickings since it's a church.

--JD

jdkinman wrote:I was carrying when I got married (in a church) and so was my wife and the preacher, my best man and most everyone in attendance--and that was twenty years ago.

Been carrying in church ever since.

Lot of money changes hands, lots of pretty women, nice cars, jewelry. . . everything a scumbag criminal looks for and that might think is easy pickings since it's a church.

--JD

When I preached in nashville, TN years ago, they had a problem with just about time for the collection, masked men came in like train robbers taken the collection and ordering folks to put wallets and jewelry in the plate. That prompted KY (across the border) to pass a law allowing carry in churches. My friend in Bowling Green hollowed out a large Bible, gluing each page together... and put a Kimber .45 in it in the Pulpit...