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Stupid wrote:In the face of Zimmerman's case, our community still wants to set up neighborhood watch. I would like to know what our legal rights are ina gated community. As a Joe resident, can I question any stranger I see and ask him or her to leave if they refuse to answer questions or show proof of residency? If I call police on the stranger, would police come and arrest the person for trespassing?

I stress that I do not imply I should try to remove them if they refuse to leave.

If the roads are maintained by the city or county, they're public property and nonresidents are not trespassing.

However, if the roads are owned and maintained by the HOA, they're private property. As a property owner, the HOA has the same right to exclude trespassers on their land as Dell or ConocoPhillips does on their gated campuses.

Lambda Force wrote:

Stupid wrote:In the face of Zimmerman's case, our community still wants to set up neighborhood watch. I would like to know what our legal rights are ina gated community. As a Joe resident, can I question any stranger I see and ask him or her to leave if they refuse to answer questions or show proof of residency? If I call police on the stranger, would police come and arrest the person for trespassing?

I stress that I do not imply I should try to remove them if they refuse to leave.

If the roads are maintained by the city or county, they're public property and nonresidents are not trespassing.

However, if the roads are owned and maintained by the HOA, they're private property. As a property owner, the HOA has the same right to exclude trespassers on their land as Dell or ConocoPhillips does on their gated campuses.

In my experience, police will not entertain a trespassing charge on communal HOA property unless the complainant is an officer of the association.

If the neighborhood watch leader is a HOA officer, that solves that problem.

Lambda Force wrote:

speedsix wrote:

Stupid wrote:I know what is a wise thing to do.

I am asking what my legal rights are.

...why didn't you just SAY that??? I don't know of any off hand...

The subject line is "Our legal rights in a gated community"

What part of that didn't you understand?

...I understood perfectly...if you'll put back the part of my post that you left out when you quoted me...you'll see that he claimed he wanted something different from the opening post...you might understand, too...

I've never lived in a community with a neighborhood watch. But, let me get this straight... people who typically get their CHLs, do so for a reason: to legally be armed/protected as much as legally permissible. They are versed in their state laws regarding use of deadly force, and the legal ramifications of doing so. Add to that, the basic sheepdog mentality of many CHL holders, and you would imagine there are more than a few CHL holders who will not participate in NW programs only because they refuse to disarm themselves (and who could blame them). With all that said, what, exactly, is the value of such a program? I'm in no way advocating that NW folks be "armed" per se, but I am trying to understand why organizers would purposely "disarm" their members. Look, you can walk into a Starbucks or a Wal-Mart armed. Why shouldn't you be armed walking your dog down the street in the evening (because if you are involved in a deadly force event, you will be labeled a Geo. Zimmerman, regardless of whether it was during your scheduled patrol)?... just because you volunteered to observe and report suspicious activity 3 - 5 hour a week? That just doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

...me, either...and that's why I won't support them or participate...why give up my time to someone who wants me to give up my rights to do it???!!!

The condo that I lived in a few years back was private property owned in common by all unit owners. A renter there possessed the same property right enjoyed by the landlord. I am assuming that the street, and sidewalk areas upon which Zimmerman observed, and became suspicious of Martin's profile ( "look & behavior" ) were common areas owned in common by all residents of the community. Martin, as an authorized guest of a resident, and Zimmerman as a resident both enjoyed the right to be where they were.

Any resident may monitor, and take appropriate action to protect the private property status of the common areas, however actually challenging a person as to their reason for being on the property, or following them is risky behavior as this incident demonstrates.

Zimmerman took an unnecessary risk since he had no knowledge whatsoever pertaining to Martin's purpose, or state of mind. Available information suggests that Martin was a person capable of considerably violent behavior. This is why NW should always leave the actual encounter to the police

I bet Zimmerman wishes Martin had jumped an off duty or plainclothes cop instead, but it wasn't up to him.

lbuehler325 wrote:But, just because you volunteered to observe and report suspicious activity 3 - 5 hour a week? That just doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

It's an attempt at risk mitigation on behalf of the HOA. Sometimes common sense and HOAs don't mesh.

I have to strongly agree with the many posters who refuse to voluntarily give up their right to self defense.

lbuehler325 wrote:I have to strongly agree with the many posters who refuse to voluntarily give up their right to self defense.

Otherwise, whoever does what the NW policy required of being disarmed is as if he is sneaking into a war zone unarmed and trying to spook the enemy! Not wise.

...I cringe everytime I see the local NW equivalent cruising through the neighborhood with their official yellow flashing light strapped on the top of their POV...with the arrogance and combativeness of a lot of the thugs these days, it's not at all unlikely that some of these grey-haired guys(and wives, in some teams) could be attacked/shot by someone they observe or interrupt...who just isn't going to stand for being called in on...they are putting themselves in danger just sporting the flashing light and door magnet...I'm for supoorting the police...observing...reporting...but by ordinary citizens who're going about their daily do...not by unarmed, cruising targets...

It's part of the new anti-NRA program by the Brady CamPain. CHOOSE TO BE A VICTIM

speedsix wrote:...I cringe everytime I see the local NW equivalent cruising through the neighborhood with their official yellow flashing light strapped on the top of their POV...with the arrogance and combativeness of a lot of the thugs these days, it's not at all unlikely that some of these grey-haired guys(and wives, in some teams) could be attacked/shot by someone they observe or interrupt...who just isn't going to stand for being called in on...they are putting themselves in danger just sporting the flashing light and door magnet...I'm for supoorting the police...observing...reporting...but by ordinary citizens who're going about their daily do...not by unarmed, cruising targets...

They advertise their prescence! Holy cow! That is REALLY unwise. Might as well wear a sign "I am unarmed....wait until I drive past then continue with you misdeeds!"

mamabearCali wrote:

speedsix wrote:...I cringe everytime I see the local NW equivalent cruising through the neighborhood with their official yellow flashing light strapped on the top of their POV...with the arrogance and combativeness of a lot of the thugs these days, it's not at all unlikely that some of these grey-haired guys(and wives, in some teams) could be attacked/shot by someone they observe or interrupt...who just isn't going to stand for being called in on...they are putting themselves in danger just sporting the flashing light and door magnet...I'm for supoorting the police...observing...reporting...but by ordinary citizens who're going about their daily do...not by unarmed, cruising targets...

They advertise their prescence! Holy cow! That is REALLY unwise. Might as well wear a sign "I am unarmed....wait until I drive past then continue with you misdeeds!"

Ours does not. We have a few that walk around in the evening but most just drive their own vehicles. No light, no sign.