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bmcferren wrote:I'm sorry that I continue to stay on this one topic ... WHEN is this new regulatory division going to begin to communicate with all of the instructors around the state? I've been an instructor for 12 years and the amount of DIS-INFORMATION coming out is absolutely amazing. The course of instruction has been modified, videos have been added (that may or may not be used during class), rules are constantly changing and are not being relayed to ALL instructors and so many more issues and all of this seems to point to the changes that were made within the department. All of the above and the division wishes to audit the instructor as if WE are the ones mis-using the system. I'm so glad to have this forum to at least receive a small amount of information from that seems to have been verified.
Bill

I tend to agree. Reading the paper posted above is frightening. Did ANYBODY think it was necessary to record and keep the actual scores for the written and proficiency tests? **ANYBODY**???

sjfcontrol wrote:

bmcferren wrote:I'm sorry that I continue to stay on this one topic ... WHEN is this new regulatory division going to begin to communicate with all of the instructors around the state? I've been an instructor for 12 years and the amount of DIS-INFORMATION coming out is absolutely amazing. The course of instruction has been modified, videos have been added (that may or may not be used during class), rules are constantly changing and are not being relayed to ALL instructors and so many more issues and all of this seems to point to the changes that were made within the department. All of the above and the division wishes to audit the instructor as if WE are the ones mis-using the system. I'm so glad to have this forum to at least receive a small amount of information from that seems to have been verified.
Bill

I tend to agree. Reading the paper posted above is frightening. Did ANYBODY think it was necessary to record and keep the actual scores for the written and proficiency tests? **ANYBODY**???

We were told in class that you don't have to any longer. Just pass/fail recorded on the CHL-100 and CHL-8 for each student.

Keith B wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

bmcferren wrote:I'm sorry that I continue to stay on this one topic ... WHEN is this new regulatory division going to begin to communicate with all of the instructors around the state? I've been an instructor for 12 years and the amount of DIS-INFORMATION coming out is absolutely amazing. The course of instruction has been modified, videos have been added (that may or may not be used during class), rules are constantly changing and are not being relayed to ALL instructors and so many more issues and all of this seems to point to the changes that were made within the department. All of the above and the division wishes to audit the instructor as if WE are the ones mis-using the system. I'm so glad to have this forum to at least receive a small amount of information from that seems to have been verified.
Bill

I tend to agree. Reading the paper posted above is frightening. Did ANYBODY think it was necessary to record and keep the actual scores for the written and proficiency tests? **ANYBODY**???

We were told in class that you don't have to any longer. Just pass/fail recorded on the CHL-100 and CHL-8 for each student.

I know what they said in class. According to the posted paper...

I know what you’re probably thinking. DPS said they didn’t want us to report scores any longer, just pass/fail. And you are right. But, even if they didn’t make it clear, the TAC makes it pretty plain that we still have to keep an internal record of the score on the post test.

and

But to satisfy what I think the DPS might be looking for here, I will also keep a copy of the proficiency score, as well as the range score sheet, signed by the student to acknowledge it.

True, this paper is nothing official, but then neither is ANYTHING else! (Including, apparently, what's said in class.) Also, I've never heard it referred to as a "post test" before, either.

Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

Well, that seems to be what the paper posted earlier in this thread indicates -- If you haven't already, it's an interesting read.

However, I wouldn't be TOO worried about not having scores -- I'm betting not 1 in 50 instructors would have kept them.

sjfcontrol wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

Well, that seems to be what the paper posted earlier in this thread indicates -- If you haven't already, it's an interesting read.

However, I wouldn't be TOO worried about not having scores -- I'm betting not 1 in 50 instructors would have kept them.

I did read it...just wasn't sure how valid it was.

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

No. In one of my renewal classes, Star specifically said not to keep test answer sheets. The instructor's copy of the CHL-100 documents the student's having passed the exam and/or proficiency portion of the class.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

No. In one of my renewal classes, Star specifically said not to keep test answer sheets. The instructor's copy of the CHL-100 documents the student's having passed the exam and/or proficiency portion of the class.

Chas.

But this is coming from "Regulatory Services", not DPS. And even DPS contradicts what DPS says in the classes. (e.g., whether stamped/electronic signatures are acceptable.) So are we really supposed to believe that a different agency will get it right? Or that DPS has it right, for that matter?

sjfcontrol wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

No. In one of my renewal classes, Star specifically said not to keep test answer sheets. The instructor's copy of the CHL-100 documents the student's having passed the exam and/or proficiency portion of the class.

Chas.

But this is coming from "Regulatory Services", not DPS. And even DPS contradicts what DPS says in the classes. (e.g., whether stamped/electronic signatures are acceptable.) So are we really supposed to believe that a different agency will get it right? Or that DPS has it right, for that matter?

They have told you (and multiple others) that scores are not to be kept, so all you need is the pass/fail. If an auditor challenges that, then they can go back to those in DPS and get clarificaiton. Easy enough.

sjfcontrol wrote:But this is coming from "Regulatory Services", not DPS. And even DPS contradicts what DPS says in the classes. (e.g., whether stamped/electronic signatures are acceptable.) So are we really supposed to believe that a different agency will get it right? Or that DPS has it right, for that matter?

Regulatory Services is the division of DPS that oversees CH licensing.

From my own recent class and the same info given out in another recent class a friend was in: No Tests. No Scores, No Range Scores No Targets. They don't want us to keep those things because they might be used against the student in a trial for a self defense shooting. Just keep the CHL 100, 7, and 8. Just the pass/fail info. Make sure you do not have the state seal on your website or cards, and keep a record of what materials you used to teach each class. Dig out your current instructor certificate. Everyone is supposed to be audited according to what we were told.
Some of the auditors have not handled CHL duties before so if they do seem to want more than than these things on students, it is likely a misunderstanding on their part. It is not meant to be a bad experience so there is no need to panic unless you have been doing some things that are serious no no's. There have been lots of changes and since they are re-writing the Admin Rules, there will surely be some more.

I am currently in the Instructors Class and Thy discussed what we need to keep and what the Auditor will be looking for. Some of you have such bad information. Texas Gal you go girl!

mommagamber wrote:I am currently in the Instructors Class and Thy discussed what we need to keep and what the Auditor will be looking for. Some of you have such bad information. Texas Gal you go girl!

Did they also say we would be verbally quizzed about procedural matters? I was told that by Diedra Neely on the phone Fri, who is over regulatory services.

wgoforth wrote:

mommagamber wrote:I am currently in the Instructors Class and Thy discussed what we need to keep and what the Auditor will be looking for. Some of you have such bad information. Texas Gal you go girl!

Did they also say we would be verbally quizzed about procedural matters? I was told that by Diedra Neely on the phone Fri, who is over regulatory services.

My understanding is they may possibly review your course outline and teaching materials to make sure you are teaching the 'four food groups' and have the bases covered on what your should be teaching.

wgoforth wrote:Are we saying that when this auditor comes out, they want to see scores?? What then if we have not recorded any?

It could be like the IRS auditor coming out and wanting to see receipts and you didn't keep any. Or it could be no big deal.