Claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year

[WildBill]

It isn't just people from the UK, the India medical tours are used by Canadians and others

http://www.trip2medi.com/faq.php

The key is that you don't have to be uber rich to be able to do better than the medical options, especially in dentistry, than are offered in the UK. Notice that the ad includes knee replacements and other procedures that have long waiting lists.

I worked in Europe and talked with several colleagues from other countries. The people from France and Germany never complained about their healthcare. I didn't find anyone from the UK who didn't complain.

First off, I'm NOT saying I want a "national healthcare system". But, I do want to know, WHY aren't the people in France and Germany complaining, and the Brits are? What is the big difference in their systems?

That's cuz they kill them if they complain.

It may be that they do complain, but we just don't hear about it.

[74novaman]

First off, I'm NOT saying I want a "national healthcare system". But, I do want to know, WHY aren't the people in France and Germany complaining, and the Brits are? What is the big difference in their systems?

That's cuz they kill them if they complain.

It may be that they do complain, but we just don't hear about it.

My very liberal father in law brought up the point that Canadians are VERY happy with their health care system (in a poll, so like all polls worth taking with a grain of salt).

My counter point was simple: Just because a chicken is happy in a coop doesn't mean it wouldn't enjoy being free range.
Judging how "happy" people are with their health care is not a good indicator of positive results from that system. Ignorance truly can be bliss.

Just a quick example: Cardiologists use a variety of tests to check heart health. One that has gotten very big here in the US is nuclear adenosine stress testing. Instead of running on a treadmill, this type of testing allows a patients heart to be stressed by a drug. Patients unable to complete a treadmill stress test have the opportunity to get their hearts examined for blocks/problems that can be addressed. It is also (in general) a more accurate way to test heart function than running on a treadmill.

I can't find the numbers online anywhere , but my wife used to work at a cardiologists office. There are a ton of places in the US offering this sort of testing. There was exactly 1 place in Canada doing it (as of 2 years ago when she worked there).

To me, that sums up the two systems in a nutshell. Here, people are trying new techniques and testing, and adopting quickly to better ways of doing things to keep up with their competition. In Canada, there is no incentive to adopt to better medicine as long as the old way is cheap and "good enough".

There are plenty of ways to examine the quality of care people receive around the world, but I would put "happiness" very very low on that list. If they don't know there's a better way and they're happy with what they've got it....fine. But it in no way implies the system they're happy with is a better system.

What I like to look for is innovation. New drugs/surgeries/tests/detection methods/etc indicate to me a health care system constantly striving for better results for patients. I see that in the US. There is some innovation overseas, but not near in amount or quality that you get here.

That was long enough I think I'll call that my .50 instead of my .02.

[chasfm11]

It isn't just people from the UK, the India medical tours are used by Canadians and others

http://www.trip2medi.com/faq.php

The key is that you don't have to be uber rich to be able to do better than the medical options, especially in dentistry, than are offered in the UK. Notice that the ad includes knee replacements and other procedures that have long waiting lists.

I worked in Europe and talked with several colleagues from other countries. The people from France and Germany never complained about their healthcare. I didn't find anyone from the UK who didn't complain.

First off, I'm NOT saying I want a "national healthcare system". But, I do want to know, WHY aren't the people in France and Germany complaining, and the Brits are? What is the big difference in their systems?

I don't know the answer for France. I worked in Orleans on and off for quite a while and met with a lot of software developers there. From what I could understand, there was no problem with getting access to the the healthcare that they needed. The UK, on the other hand, denies, denies, denies access to most healthcare. The waiting lines for some of the most routine treatments and tests take months.. That was always the complaint. Where you and I could get an MRI if it were needed within a week, there it was 6 months to a year for that kind of test. I always equated it to our Post Office. No matter how many people want to send Christmas packages, there are still only the same 3 clerks that were there in the Summer when there was 1/10th of the traffic.

[gdanaher]

The British NHS system has been in business since 1948 so it is hard to compare medical care services pre war to post war and beyond, but can anyone attribute the presumed decline in British health care to the actual NHS system, or is more a matter of just something endemic to the UK, like bad dental health? In other words, is it possible that British health care would stink about as bad as it does if the government had kept their fingers out of it?

[VMI77]

The British NHS system has been in business since 1948 so it is hard to compare medical care services pre war to post war and beyond, but can anyone attribute the presumed decline in British health care to the actual NHS system, or is more a matter of just something endemic to the UK, like bad dental health? In other words, is it possible that British health care would stink about as bad as it does if the government had kept their fingers out of it?

I don't think you have to look very far for the answer. They have a private healthcare industry --it's apparently thriving, and seems to be able to deliver what the NHS cannot.