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C-dub wrote:Yeah, the states' right to have slavery. The south doesn't want to admit to it, but that's what it was all about. Just look at how they refer to the war itself. They call it the war of northern aggression, but the south fired the first shots.

I've seen and read much to know it was not that simple. The north had slaves, albeit far fewer (not many cotton fields up that way). Tensions with the south started way before the Civil War, and Lincoln only brought up the issue of slavery in 1862 (IIRC). It was a way for the north to essentially pull the economy out from under the south, and it worked. I'll have to see if I can find the title of the documentary I just watched as it was quite informative and explained some things I knew nothing about.

jimlongley wrote:

C-dub wrote:. . . but the south fired the first shots.

According to the northern oppressors' version of history.

See what I mean.

If the CSA survived 35 years or so...

Let's see: Chuck Schummer, Michael Bloomberg, Joe Biden, Eric Holder, Rahm Emmanuel, and that other guy, the one currently in the White House are all yankees as are those women from Kalifornia...to name a few.

What else do you need to know about the "War of Northern Aggression"? Yes, I have prejudices...a lot of 'em.

Oldgringo wrote:Let's see: Chuck Schummer, Michael Bloomberg, Joe Biden, Eric Holder, Rahm Emmanuel, and that other guy, the one currently in the White House are all yankees as are those women from Kalifornia...to name a few.

What else do you need to know about the "War of Northern Aggression"? Yes, I have prejudices...a lot of 'em.

Oldgringo, now THOSE are the kind of folks I am prejudiced against, too...great rogues gallery.

texasmusic wrote:If the CSA survived 35 years or so...

Already working in PA.

pbwalker wrote:

C-dub wrote:Yeah, the states' right to have slavery. The south doesn't want to admit to it, but that's what it was all about. Just look at how they refer to the war itself. They call it the war of northern aggression, but the south fired the first shots.

I've seen and read much to know it was not that simple. The north had slaves, albeit far fewer (not many cotton fields up that way). Tensions with the south started way before the Civil War, and Lincoln only brought up the issue of slavery in 1862 (IIRC). It was a way for the north to essentially pull the economy out from under the south, and it worked. I'll have to see if I can find the title of the documentary I just watched as it was quite informative and explained some things I knew nothing about.

OK, let's not forget that slavery went all the way back in written history, and was pretty much accepted, even by the biggest Bible thumpers, because it was "normal" in the Bible and even recommended as proper punishment for certain infractions. And slavery wasn't just a black vs white issue, although much less common by the time of the War of Northern Aggression, slavery or indentured servitude of non-black peoples was common, one of my (white) ancestors came over from England as an indentured servant, and another ancestor actually put his son in such a situation by "bond" as an apprentice, not an uncommon practice. And NY State's laws made women chattel until Governor Nelson Rockefeller got the laws changed so he could divorce.

It was interesting to me when, as a child in school, we were taught, once again counter to what I had learned from my grandparents (not all rabid southrons) we were taught that ALL slavery was oppression of blacks by whites, which seems to be pretty much what everyone thinks today, and when I tried to bring up the issue, I got shushed by the teachers and lower marks in school.. My own grandmother came over from England as an "indentured servant" by a family which paid for her passage and that of other members of her family, in return for her service to them for a term of six years. Yes, it was contractual, but there was no pay (beyond the passage) for that six years and her schooling was paid for by her brother (then serving in the US Navy) and she remained with that family even after receiving her college degree because of the contract.

As far as the late lamented war, the tensions and issues were old by the time the war started, indeed the threats of secession for various reasons also run all the way back to the formation of the union.

By the way, slavery still exists today, particularly in the Middle East.

The modern term is "Human Trafficking".

stroo wrote:By the way, slavery still exists today, particularly in the Middle East.

Yep. I read an article about how bad it is in Dubai. They entice fellow Muslims from SE Asia to come work there, then seize their passports and garnish their wages for "food/housing". Truly disgusting behavior.

Considering about half our income goes to the various taxing agents it would seem we are all basically indentured servants of our government(s).

When did the term African-American come into vogue? When I was in school (granted, it was many moons ago), there were only three races: Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasion. Where and when did all of these other races show up?

jimlongley wrote:

pbwalker wrote:

C-dub wrote:Yeah, the states' right to have slavery. The south doesn't want to admit to it, but that's what it was all about. Just look at how they refer to the war itself. They call it the war of northern aggression, but the south fired the first shots.

I've seen and read much to know it was not that simple. The north had slaves, albeit far fewer (not many cotton fields up that way). Tensions with the south started way before the Civil War, and Lincoln only brought up the issue of slavery in 1862 (IIRC). It was a way for the north to essentially pull the economy out from under the south, and it worked. I'll have to see if I can find the title of the documentary I just watched as it was quite informative and explained some things I knew nothing about.

OK, let's not forget that slavery went all the way back in written history, and was pretty much accepted, even by the biggest Bible thumpers, because it was "normal" in the Bible and even recommended as proper punishment for certain infractions. And slavery wasn't just a black vs white issue, although much less common by the time of the War of Northern Aggression, slavery or indentured servitude of non-black peoples was common, one of my (white) ancestors came over from England as an indentured servant, and another ancestor actually put his son in such a situation by "bond" as an apprentice, not an uncommon practice. And NY State's laws made women chattel until Governor Nelson Rockefeller got the laws changed so he could divorce.

It was interesting to me when, as a child in school, we were taught, once again counter to what I had learned from my grandparents (not all rabid southrons) we were taught that ALL slavery was oppression of blacks by whites, which seems to be pretty much what everyone thinks today, and when I tried to bring up the issue, I got shushed by the teachers and lower marks in school.. My own grandmother came over from England as an "indentured servant" by a family which paid for her passage and that of other members of her family, in return for her service to them for a term of six years. Yes, it was contractual, but there was no pay (beyond the passage) for that six years and her schooling was paid for by her brother (then serving in the US Navy) and she remained with that family even after receiving her college degree because of the contract.

As far as the late lamented war, the tensions and issues were old by the time the war started, indeed the threats of secession for various reasons also run all the way back to the formation of the union.

Right there with you Jim. Know it, understand it, and agree with what you've said there.

stroo wrote:By the way, slavery still exists today, particularly in the Middle East.

It still exists here in the US. It just doesn't look the same and what we traditionally think of as slavery.

C-dub wrote:

stroo wrote:By the way, slavery still exists today, particularly in the Middle East.

It still exists here in the US. It just doesn't look the same and what we traditionally think of as slavery.

Heard on the radio today that there was a massage parlor in Ceder Park by Austin that had 5 Asian women kept there as prostitutes. Police are now investigating a human trafficking ring.