DHS Supplier Provides Shooting Targets of American Gun Owner

[VMI77]

Why do they have that distrust? I am not saying that a healthy dose of skepticism of what we are told by our government isn't good, what I'm asking is what happened to critical thought? Reason? The ability to be discerning?
Why do folks automatically assume the worst? I spent all of 5 minutes investigating the company, target types, etc. and came to the conclusion that there was no story here. And I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, by any means.

Perhaps it is because we see disrespect for constitutional rule of law on all sides of us. Perhaps we hear murmurings of plans to try to disarm the people, forcibly in some states. Perhaps ,we see LEO's rather often abusing their authority on tape. We are told by DHS that if we love the constitution and keep more than three days of food on hand we are potential terrorism threats. Now is everyone guilty in govt and LEO positions, heavens no. But it is enough that things I would have passed over 5 years ago I take a close look at it with concern.

Perhaps it's due to to much information, rumors and speculative fiction masquerading as journalism. There has never before been a time when our gov't and it's activities have received such scrutiny.
Disrespect for constitutional rule: 1950's Eisenhower, I grew up in Southern Nevada, I've seen the results of the DoD marching soldiers into ground zero at the Nevada Test Site hours after an above ground test, have friends in S.E. Utah who were assembled outside their school buildings to watch the tests and then be covered with fallout from prevailing winds.1930s Roosevelt, SSA, WPA, and all the other New Deal garbage that changed our country forever. ETC, ETC.
Murmurings? With the 24 hour news cycle and the web if a State government is planning to forcibly disarm citizens we'd all know, if you are referring to NY's legislation why don't we see how that shakes out in the court system and the election process, y'know Constitutional exercise of franchise etc.
LEO's abusing their authority, Believe me there was just as much, if not more abuse of authority before dash cams and cell phones. Why does a LEO have to read you your rights? Miranda v. Arizona 1966. The only thing that's worse is perception, we see it if it happens in Richmond, Detroit, Los Angeles, or Dallas.
DHS Constitution/Food storage, have you seen/read the BJA/FBI circular that started this one? http://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI- ... urplus.pdf read it and the disclaimers. What do you object to? LEOS use reasonable suspicion all the time. That we have home grown domestic terrorists shouldn't be in dispute. If the activities that have been compiled from studying the Weather Underground, Una Ted Kasinsky, Timothy McVeigh, etc. are observable in someone else shouldn't that interest you. We talk about how all the mass shooters of recent vintage being mentally ill and they only were able to do what they did because no one reported them, how is this request for information different?
Are there things you passed over 5 years ago, that now are ginned up reports and exclusives designed to elicit the worst in us. You have read, as have I, the responses in this thread of people who have dedicated their lives to the preservation of this country and our society. People who are honorable, yes, even noble in their devotion to our Constitution, who have stated, no story here. Yet this story and the ones from the last however many years, all proven false, will remain in the back of our minds, FEMA Death Camps, Mass Graveyards, Stockpiles of Caskets, Targets of American Gun Owners. Festering, giving us no peace and feeding fear of all around us. Who gains from this fear? Who benefits from it? Certainly not the federal gov't. Maybe it's the people who wholesale this trash? Do we watch their programs, buy their books and other products they advertise? What did we use to call these people? Loons. Don't believe them.

You have to be kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. If you're that blind to how this country has changed over the past 50 years then nothing anyone can say to you is going to make any difference. You go ahead and trust the Federal Government and see where that gets you.

[K.Mooneyham]

Folks, the link is to Alex Jones' site; enough said.

These are photo-realistic targets that have been used in tactical training for decades. They are used, in part, because it helps to train students (COPS or citizens) that threats come in all shapes, sizes, colors and gender. One can no more say that all black men are a threat anymore than one can say "old men" and pregnant women are never a threat. In typical Alex Jones fashion, he puts a picture of a pregnant woman on his site purely to be inflammatory.

I'm getting tired of saying this, "the TexasCHLforum is not the National Inquirer." Stop now!

Chas.

Sir, I do not doubt you in the least about what those targets are and how long they have been around. My wordy replies were to try and explain why folks would believe that those targets were for some other reason. My apologies if I went about that the wrong way.

[Andrew]

You have to be kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. If you're that blind to how this country has changed over the past 50 years then nothing anyone can say to you is going to make any difference. You go ahead and trust the Federal Government and see where that gets you.

Blind, no. Trusting in the Federal Government, no. Willing to investigate/examine statements made by Loons, yes.
How has our country/society changed in the last 50 years. what do you want to change back? Civil Rights Act? How about CERCLA, RCRA, CAA, SARA(specifically title III). What about National Markets, Avg. Fam spent 26% of income on food in 60's, Today less than 17%. Discretionary spending has increased also, from less than 7% to over 12%. Improved transportation and research in Ag has produced a food market that is the envy of the world. Remember when most fresh produce was seasonal and prone to almost immediate spoilage? Scientific Achievement? Medical Technology? Safe, reliable birth control? Women in the workplace, higher education, government? Or are you refering to secrecy in our Government and it's activities?
Another poster here dropped a list of dozens of truly heinous acts carried out by our government from the turn of the 20th century through the 60's, infecting citizens with diseases and studying the progression of same without treatment, LSD studies, Nuke survival, surveillance of citizens without due process, black mail, assasinations, etc. Want to go back to those times?

There has never before been a time when our gov't and it's activities have received such scrutiny

How did we learn of the heinous acts of our benevolent Federal Govenrment? Did they just come clean and plead "Mea culpa, Mea culpa"? No. More changes from the last 50 years:
FOIA July 4th 1966, want to know what going on? Ask! It's how we found out about all those heinous activities.(great date for the signing!)
E-FOIA November 11th 1996, don't have time to go to the archives and dig around through mountains of documents? Let's require the Feds to digitize those mountains and have them available online, and create a watchdog that monitors compliance. (another historical date!)
Lobbying Disclosure Act 1995 and the Open Government Act 2007. Who's paying who for what and why?
FEC 1975, ineffective? maybe, crooks are very inventive.
SCOTUS ruling on Miranda v. Arizona, numerous decisions on due process and on 1st 2nd and 4th A rights.
How about the decentralization of Media? Where did we get our info in the 60s? 3 broadcast networks for TV, 5-6 major newspapers, 2 wire services. Walter Cronkite was "The Most Trusted Man" in America. Today it's comedian Jon Stewart!
There are literally thousand of media outlets clamoring for our attention, they all need a story. They are looking, hard! There are lots and lots of folks who constantly scan sites like business.usa.gov for RFPs RFBs and with 'bots the only thing that slows them down is their programming and page load times. With all that activity, desire to break big stories and the economic benefits they would reap from same, why is it the Loons that publish/disseminate this trash?
So, I'll repeat, "There has never before been a time when our gov't and it's activities have received such scrutiny"

Trust the Fedral Government? Never, without verification. And when it smells like doo-doo and looks like doo-doo, I don't need to taste it to make sure.

[recaffeination]

Try selling Obama or Biden targets and see if They think it's no big deal.

[VMI77]

You have to be kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. If you're that blind to how this country has changed over the past 50 years then nothing anyone can say to you is going to make any difference. You go ahead and trust the Federal Government and see where that gets you.

Blind, no. Trusting in the Federal Government, no. Willing to investigate/examine statements made by Loons, yes.
How has our country/society changed in the last 50 years. what do you want to change back? Civil Rights Act? How about CERCLA, RCRA, CAA, SARA(specifically title III). What about National Markets, Avg. Fam spent 26% of income on food in 60's, Today less than 17%. Discretionary spending has increased also, from less than 7% to over 12%. Improved transportation and research in Ag has produced a food market that is the envy of the world. Remember when most fresh produce was seasonal and prone to almost immediate spoilage? Scientific Achievement? Medical Technology? Safe, reliable birth control? Women in the workplace, higher education, government? Or are you refering to secrecy in our Government and it's activities?
Another poster here dropped a list of dozens of truly heinous acts carried out by our government from the turn of the 20th century through the 60's, infecting citizens with diseases and studying the progression of same without treatment, LSD studies, Nuke survival, surveillance of citizens without due process, black mail, assasinations, etc. Want to go back to those times?

There has never before been a time when our gov't and it's activities have received such scrutiny

How did we learn of the heinous acts of our benevolent Federal Govenrment? Did they just come clean and plead "Mea culpa, Mea culpa"? No. More changes from the last 50 years:
FOIA July 4th 1966, want to know what going on? Ask! It's how we found out about all those heinous activities.(great date for the signing!)
E-FOIA November 11th 1996, don't have time to go to the archives and dig around through mountains of documents? Let's require the Feds to digitize those mountains and have them available online, and create a watchdog that monitors compliance. (another historical date!)
Lobbying Disclosure Act 1995 and the Open Government Act 2007. Who's paying who for what and why?
FEC 1975, ineffective? maybe, crooks are very inventive.
SCOTUS ruling on Miranda v. Arizona, numerous decisions on due process and on 1st 2nd and 4th A rights.
How about the decentralization of Media? Where did we get our info in the 60s? 3 broadcast networks for TV, 5-6 major newspapers, 2 wire services. Walter Cronkite was "The Most Trusted Man" in America. Today it's comedian Jon Stewart!
There are literally thousand of media outlets clamoring for our attention, they all need a story. They are looking, hard! There are lots and lots of folks who constantly scan sites like business.usa.gov for RFPs RFBs and with 'bots the only thing that slows them down is their programming and page load times. With all that activity, desire to break big stories and the economic benefits they would reap from same, why is it the Loons that publish/disseminate this trash?
So, I'll repeat, "There has never before been a time when our gov't and it's activities have recceived such scrutiny"

Trust the Fedral Government? Never, without verification. And when it smells like doo-doo and looks like doo-doo, I don't need to taste it to make sure.

I really don't feel like writing an essay, so I'll let this guy speak for me: http://www.fredoneverything.net/Guns.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lot of what you're talking about is from the advance of science, which, for the most part, the government has hindered. Without government intervention and regulation many technologies would be more advanced than they are today. A lot of your other claims are debatable. For instance about the seasonal availability of food. Yeah, certain foods are available all year round and they weren't before. That supposed benefit came at a cost of food quality. So, if you like tasteless tomatoes all year round instead of tasty tomatoes in season, you may consider it a good thing. Many people don't. For every SC decision you think is good I can cite one that I think is bad (and you might even agree it was bad). But really, the "Open Government Act," seriously? You think we've got an open government? You're obviously too smart to really believe that.

Nearly every statistic the government puts out --at least everyone I ever pay any attention to-- is a lie in the form of a deliberate distortion or omission. You're watching it first hand when it comes to guns: the anti-gun reps lie and their lies are parroted in the media. The media lies and has been caught lying many times. Oh, and all this transparency you think we have.....every major disclosure has come from a whistle-blower who has been persecuted, or worse, for speaking out. and not from official government sources. Some of these heinous programs you refer to went on for decades --such as the Tuskegee Experiments. It's absurd to say we have an open government when it does something reprehensible for 40 years and then finally gets outed by a whistle-blower. The employment statistics, inflation statistics, and other economic data are outright lies and deliberate distortions. The Federal budget is a lie. None of these lies are challenged by the major media. How are earth can you call a government that lies open?

But this:

Nuke survival, surveillance of citizens without due process, black mail, assasinations, etc. Want to go back to those times?

What do you mean "go back" to those times? I'm not sure what you mean by nuke survival, but the rest of it is going on and it's far more pervasive than it was in the past.

[Andrew]

Try selling Obama or Biden targets and see if They think it's no big deal.

Like these http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 45685.html
Or maybe a Secret Service/Exec Protection/LEO type mixed in with Darth Vader and Freddy Kruger http://www.flickr.com/photos/ollym/3171768774/Like a little blood, this one was originally marketed as "Barocky" http://zombieindustries.com/shop/rocky-zombie/

[LSUTiger]

I don't know if this will add fuel to the fire but it sure is a heck of a coincidence.......

http://www.houstonconventionctr.com/Att ... vents.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Mass Fatality Management Symposium
Houston Regional Catastrophic Preparedness Initiative
Monday, March 4, 2013 at 8:00 AM - Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM (CST)
Houston, TX


Mass Fatality Management Symposium Schedule

March 4-5, 2013, George R. Brown Convention Center, Houston, Texas

Hosted By:

Houston Regional Catastrophic Preparedness Initiative

Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences

City of Houston Mayor’s Office of Public Safety and Homeland Security



Day One
Topic
Speaker

0800-0830
Welcome
Dr. Emily Kidd, MD

TX Disaster Medical System

0830-0915
Managing Disaster Deaths

Mass fatality incident response overview
Dr. Edward Kilbane, MD

NDMS FM Program Manager

0915-1015
I-35 Bridge Collapse over the Mississippi River

Review of the disaster response and lessons learned
Dr. Andrew Baker, MD

Hennipen Co., MN Chief ME

1015-1030
BREAK


1030-1130
Family Assistance

Aspects of family assistance from the beginning to the end of the disaster response
Dr. Elias Kontanis, PhD

NTSB Family Assistance

1130-1300
LUNCH (Provided On-Site)


Breakout Sessions

1300-1350
Victim Identification Program Overview

Software applications supporting identification processes
Don Bloom

DMORT Family Assistance

Responder Mental Health

Detecting behavioral and mental health issues and caring for MFI responders
Dr. Grady Bray, PhD

Disaster Psychologist

Victim Identification in Disaster Response Settings

Identification processes, presumptive vs scientific means, ante- and postmortem records
Dr. Jason Wiersema, PhD

HCIFS Forensic Anthropologist

1400-1450
Managing Expectations and Public Messaging

Communicating realistic messages to families, the public, and elected officials
CDR Chuck Smith

DMORT Region VI

Family Dynamics

Providing for individuals suffering from the trauma of sudden and unexpected loss
Dr. Elias Kontanis, PhD

NTSB Family Assistance

FBI Approach to Victim Assistance

Supporting victims of terrorism and other federal crimes
Kyle Scherrer

FBI Victim Assistance

1450-1510
BREAK


1510-1600
Legal Aspects of Death

Authority over decedents, death pronouncement, death certification, and disposition
Glen Van Slyke, JD

HCIFS Legal Counsel

Resources Over the Horizon

Who has what, where it is located, and how to request it
CDR Amy Taylor

HHS/ASPR Region 6

Local and Regional Mass Fatality Management Planning

Putting operational knowledge into functional plans, trainings, and exercises
Allison Woody

HCIFS Preparedness Coord.

Day Two
Topic
Speaker

0800-0915
Managing FAC Operations – The Joplin Model

Review of disaster response and lessons learned
Don Bloom

DMORT Family Assistance

0915-1030
FAC on the Receiving End

Family member perspective of family assistance services and support
Mike Quimby

Disaster Family Member

1030-1050
BREAK


1050-1130
Fatality Management Panel Discussion

Panel of speakers will address audience questions
Speaker Panel

1130-1300
LUNCH (Provided On-Site)


1300-1500
Temporary Morgue Tour (On-Site)

Learn from SMEs and walk through the HCIFS Temporary Morgue display
David Boyer & SMEs

RCPI MFI Planner

1500-1530
Closing Remarks
Dr. Luis Sanchez, MD

HCIFS Chief Medical Examiner


This activity has been planned and implemented in accordance with the Essential Areas and Policies of the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME). The Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences is accredited by the Texas Medical Association to provide AMA PRA Category 1 Credit TM for physicians and takes responsibility for the content, quality, and scientific integrity of this educational activity.

[Andrew]

I don't know if this will add fuel to the fire but it sure is a heck of a coincidence.......

Coincidental to? That there is a need for medical personnel to to be prepared in the event of a bridge collapse, man made or natural disaster, a terrorist attack?
Which one of those events can you guarantee won't happen? You don't want emergency and medical personnel trained? What?

[VMI77]

Try selling Obama or Biden targets and see if They think it's no big deal.

Like these http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 45685.html
Or maybe a Secret Service/Exec Protection/LEO type mixed in with Darth Vader and Freddy Kruger http://www.flickr.com/photos/ollym/3171768774/Like a little blood, this one was originally marketed as "Barocky" http://zombieindustries.com/shop/rocky-zombie/

Not the same at all. The Obama target is a caricature. It's not promoted as a "NO HESITATION" target. It's not realistic looking. It's promoted as a political statement. It includes Republicans. And it symbolizes frustrated opposition to power, not the imposition of government power over individuals. Oh yeah, and it's a skeet target.

And furthermore, as far as targets go, at least one state, The People's Republic of New Jersey, bans shooting targets that look like people. While I think that the ban is ridiculous and a government wouldn't prohibit a free people from shooting at them, the article you cite and the comments following indicate that many people find even the caricature targets disturbing.

I think you'd find the government's reaction entirely different if someone was selling realistic photo targets of Obama and Biden.

[Andrew]

I really don't feel like writing an essay, so I'll let this guy speak for me: http://www.fredoneverything.net/Guns.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really? Okay!
"People lived, a great many of them, on farms where they planted their own crops, built their own barns, repaired their own trucks, and protected their own property. They were literate but not educated, knew little of the world beyond the local" Not really a viable lifestyle if you have to be ever vigilant of our nefarious gov't is it? Of course ignorance is bliss, no need to put on your big boy pants.
"The country people built their own boats to crab in the Potomac, converted junked car engines to marine, made their own crab pots, planted corn and such, and hunted deer. There was very little contact with the government. One state trooper was the law, and he had precious little to do."
Let's see, unregulated over fishing, ground and surface water pollution from hydrocarbons and farm run off, led to the collapse of the Chesapeake oyster, rockfish, and blue crab fisheries. Even today after 30 years of management they haven't really returned to a self sustaining level. And I'm sure all of the rural LEOs back then modeled themselves after Andy of Mayberry.
"We kids could get up on a summer morning, grab the .22 or .410, put it over our shoulder and go into the country store for ammunition, and no one looked twice" You still can in lots of, no I'd say most rural communities. Tragically not in urban Northern Va. Folks get a bit testy if you start letting fly with the lead over their patios.
"We could drive unwisely but joyously on winding wooded roads late at night and nobody cared." Except for the parents who had to see their children scraped out of the wrecks wrapped around a tree. Who knows, maybe a beer or two fueled that unwise and joyous drive?
"Call it “freedom.” We were free, and so were the country folk on their farms and with their crabbing rigs. Because we were free, we felt free. It was a distinct psychology, though we didn’t know it."Nah, let's call it what it really was, ignorance. Ignorance of the world around them, ignorance of the impact their actions had on themselves and others.
"As Walmart and shopping centers and factories moved in, the farmers sold their land to real-estate developers at what they thought mind-boggling prices, and went to work as security guards and truck drivers. Employees are not free. They fear the boss, fear dismissal, and become prisoners of the retirement system. So much for Marlboro Man"Fear? Security guards and truck drivers? Maybe they should have investigated that uneducated paradigm. Built skills that had value, so they didn't have to fear "The Boss". Create wealth so that weren't dependent on a dole for retirement.
"Self-reliance went. Few any longer can fix a car or the plumbing, grow food, hunt, bait a hook or install a new roof. Or defend themselves. To overstate barely, everyone depends on someone else, often the government, for everything. Thus we became the Hive." Dang, I always wondered how and why Goober and Floyd had so much time on their hands. It's a wonder they made a living at all! The Hive...some of the most self reliant folks I know, The Mormon Communities of Utah use the Bee Hive as a symbol of industry and self reliance.
"Government came like a dust storm of fine choking powder, making its way into everything. You could no longer build a shed without a half-dozen permits and inspections." Can't slap together a shed and wire it up any ol' way. Darn, hate to see that thing collapse or burn to the ground with someone in it.
"The government began spying on email, requiring licenses and permits for everything, and deciding what could and could not be taught to one’s children, who one had to associate with, and what one could think about what or, more usually, whom." I personally decided what my children were taught, we home schooled, not any gov't. No one has ever decided, well except my Bride, who I associate with, what I think, believe, or when and how I worship for that matter. Is Fred sure he's in Northern Va. USA?
"With this came feminization. The schools began to value feelings over learning anything. Dodge ball and freeze tag became violence and heartless competition, giving way to cooperative group activities led by a caring adult. The female preference for security over freedom set in like a hard frost." Somehow i just knew we'd wind up with misogyny in one form or another. You do want women out of the workplace, academia, and gov't.! Back to the Kitchen Wenches!
Blah, blah, blah wimps not real men, etc for 6 paragraphs.

"They—we—grew up with guns. Since nobody ever shot anybody accidentally or otherwise, we accepted as obvious: that people, not guns, committed murder. Did shotguns leap into the air of their own volition, point themselves, and open fire? Or did someone pull the trigger? If a murderer shot his victim, did you put the gun in jail, or the murderer? If remote urban barbarians below the level of civilization shot people, what did that have to do with us?" I whole heartedly agree with and support this position.
"A different America, a different culture. We really were free. You could come out of the house on a summer morning and let the dogs run loose in the fields, nobody ever having heard of a dog license. You could change the oil in your car or rewire your basement without the county meddling. You could shoot varmints eating your garden and no one cared. The government left you alone. This is not an unimportant part of the dispute over guns—wanting to be left alone. Nobody in America, ever again, is going to be left alone. Not ever." Gee, I'm gonna take a leak off the back porch, and hope one of mangy curs that inhabit it doesn't have rabies and takes a snap at me. While everyone is subject to nostalgia, allowing yourself to indulge in a fantasy world that never existed is just silly.
Thank you for sharing your views. I appreciate the insight into who you are.

[LSUTiger]

I don't know if this will add fuel to the fire but it sure is a heck of a coincidence.......

Coincidental to? That there is a need for medical personnel to to be prepared in the event of a bridge collapse, man made or natural disaster, a terrorist attack?
Which one of those events can you guarantee won't happen? You don't want emergency and medical personnel trained? What?

I am all for disaster relief and emergency preparedness. I the wake of recent historical weather events, it's warranted.

But this training can also apply to preparing for dealing with the mass killing of US Citizens as a result of civil conflict.

Everything that taken at face value has a good intention can also have a hidden purpose.

Sometimes the timing of an event in conjunction with other events or political agendas can cause one to wonder.

The symposium is called Mass Fatality Management not disaster relief or emergency preparedness which is supposed to prevent fatalities.

If you cared to review the agenda you'd see its about dealing with dead people not medical treatment for injured people.

[VMI77]

I really don't feel like writing an essay, so I'll let this guy speak for me: http://www.fredoneverything.net/Guns.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really? Okay!
"People lived, a great many of them, on farms where they planted their own crops, built their own barns, repaired their own trucks, and protected their own property. They were literate but not educated, knew little of the world beyond the local" Not really a viable lifestyle if you have to be ever vigilant of our nefarious gov't is it? Of course ignorance is bliss, no need to put on your big boy pants.
"The country people built their own boats to crab in the Potomac, converted junked car engines to marine, made their own crab pots, planted corn and such, and hunted deer. There was very little contact with the government. One state trooper was the law, and he had precious little to do."
Let's see, unregulated over fishing, ground and surface water pollution from hydrocarbons and farm run off, led to the collapse of the Chesapeake oyster, rockfish, and blue crab fisheries. Even today after 30 years of management they haven't really returned to a self sustaining level. And I'm sure all of the rural LEOs back then modeled themselves after Andy of Mayberry.
"We kids could get up on a summer morning, grab the .22 or .410, put it over our shoulder and go into the country store for ammunition, and no one looked twice" You still can in lots of, no I'd say most rural communities. Tragically not in urban Northern Va. Folks get a bit testy if you start letting fly with the lead over their patios.
"We could drive unwisely but joyously on winding wooded roads late at night and nobody cared." Except for the parents who had to see their children scraped out of the wrecks wrapped around a tree. Who knows, maybe a beer or two fueled that unwise and joyous drive?
"Call it “freedom.” We were free, and so were the country folk on their farms and with their crabbing rigs. Because we were free, we felt free. It was a distinct psychology, though we didn’t know it."Nah, let's call it what it really was, ignorance. Ignorance of the world around them, ignorance of the impact their actions had on themselves and others.
"As Walmart and shopping centers and factories moved in, the farmers sold their land to real-estate developers at what they thought mind-boggling prices, and went to work as security guards and truck drivers. Employees are not free. They fear the boss, fear dismissal, and become prisoners of the retirement system. So much for Marlboro Man"Fear? Security guards and truck drivers? Maybe they should have investigated that uneducated paradigm. Built skills that had value, so they didn't have to fear "The Boss". Create wealth so that weren't dependent on a dole for retirement.
"Self-reliance went. Few any longer can fix a car or the plumbing, grow food, hunt, bait a hook or install a new roof. Or defend themselves. To overstate barely, everyone depends on someone else, often the government, for everything. Thus we became the Hive." Dang, I always wondered how and why Goober and Floyd had so much time on their hands. It's a wonder they made a living at all! The Hive...some of the most self reliant folks I know, The Mormon Communities of Utah use the Bee Hive as a symbol of industry and self reliance.
"Government came like a dust storm of fine choking powder, making its way into everything. You could no longer build a shed without a half-dozen permits and inspections." Can't slap together a shed and wire it up any ol' way. Darn, hate to see that thing collapse or burn to the ground with someone in it.
"The government began spying on email, requiring licenses and permits for everything, and deciding what could and could not be taught to one’s children, who one had to associate with, and what one could think about what or, more usually, whom." I personally decided what my children were taught, we home schooled, not any gov't. No one has ever decided, well except my Bride, who I associate with, what I think, believe, or when and how I worship for that matter. Is Fred sure he's in Northern Va. USA?
"With this came feminization. The schools began to value feelings over learning anything. Dodge ball and freeze tag became violence and heartless competition, giving way to cooperative group activities led by a caring adult. The female preference for security over freedom set in like a hard frost." Somehow i just knew we'd wind up with misogyny in one form or another. You do want women out of the workplace, academia, and gov't.! Back to the Kitchen Wenches!
Blah, blah, blah wimps not real men, etc for 6 paragraphs.

"They—we—grew up with guns. Since nobody ever shot anybody accidentally or otherwise, we accepted as obvious: that people, not guns, committed murder. Did shotguns leap into the air of their own volition, point themselves, and open fire? Or did someone pull the trigger? If a murderer shot his victim, did you put the gun in jail, or the murderer? If remote urban barbarians below the level of civilization shot people, what did that have to do with us?" I whole heartedly agree with and support this position.
"A different America, a different culture. We really were free. You could come out of the house on a summer morning and let the dogs run loose in the fields, nobody ever having heard of a dog license. You could change the oil in your car or rewire your basement without the county meddling. You could shoot varmints eating your garden and no one cared. The government left you alone. This is not an unimportant part of the dispute over guns—wanting to be left alone. Nobody in America, ever again, is going to be left alone. Not ever." Gee, I'm gonna take a leak off the back porch, and hope one of mangy curs that inhabit it doesn't have rabies and takes a snap at me. While everyone is subject to nostalgia, allowing yourself to indulge in a fantasy world that never existed is just silly.
Thank you for sharing your views. I appreciate the insight into who you are.

Wow, you're really into this, or bored. And I thank you for your smug, condescending, and insulting replies which give me great insight into who you are. Government regulation and dictates are not "freedom." You're absolutely delusional if you think the government is responsible for all these things you think are good. The government causes more problems than it fixes. But more importantly, most of the Federal government is an illegal usurpation of State's rights and violates the Constitution. I work in an industry that over the last 10 years has become hyper-regulated. We've gone from spending very little time and resources on compliance to draining 20% or more of our man hours and adding extra personnel solely for the purpose of compliance. This has not improved the industry, it has diverted resources to responding to government bureaucracy that would otherwise have been directed to maintaining and operating the system. You seem to think that represents freedom. I don't.

A time that never was....baloney. I lived it. And not on a farm or a ranch or out in the boonies. There is virtually no difference between the philosophy represented by your snide comments and the Obama you didn't build that philosophy, so you should be very happy with the current administration. You both apparently believe we'd all be living in mud huts, beating women, and illiterate if it wasn't for the greatness of the Federal Government. Utter nonsense.

[Andrew]

I don't know if this will add fuel to the fire but it sure is a heck of a coincidence.......

Coincidental to? That there is a need for medical personnel to to be prepared in the event of a bridge collapse, man made or natural disaster, a terrorist attack?
Which one of those events can you guarantee won't happen? You don't want emergency and medical personnel trained? What?

I am all for disaster relief and emergency preparedness. I the wake of recent historical weather events, it's warranted.

But this training can also apply to preparing for dealing with the mass killing of US Citizens as a result of civil conflict.

Everything that taken at face value has a good intention can also have a hidden purpose.

Sometimes the timing of an event in conjunction with other events or political agendas can cause one to wonder.

The symposium is called Mass Fatality Management not disaster relief or emergency preparedness which is supposed to prevent fatalities.

If you cared to review the agenda you'd see its about dealing with dead people not medical treatment for injured people.

I read the agenda. I know what the title of the symposium is. When the Towers fell who dealt with the fatalities, Medical Doctors. Post Katrina who dealt with the fatalies, Medical Doctors. Who accredited the symposium, who attended?
"The Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences is accredited by the Texas Medical Association to provide AMA PRA Category 1 Credit TM for physicians and takes responsibility for the content, quality, and scientific integrity of this educational activity."

[Skiprr]

Folks, turn it down a notch.

Please keep Forum Rule #2 in mind (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10341" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;): "No personal attacks on other members." Longtooth had to post a reminder on page one of this thread, and by page three we're already back to personal attacks.

Talk about the issue, not the other Forum member.

[Charles L. Cotton]

At least two warnings have been given about this thread and there won't be one more. It will be locked if there's even a hint of a personal attack. People doing this have been warned before and they've been here long enough to know our rules.

Chas.