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yea Keith they do have those as they are required by law, darnit all

Keith B wrote: I am 99% sure it is a Unlicensed possession sign that is in the form of a plaque to match the décor of the restaurant. I will take a photo of one tomorrow if I get a chance.

Since unlicensed possession is illegal regardless, why bother putting up the sign?

ATDM wrote:

Keith B wrote: I am 99% sure it is a Unlicensed possession sign that is in the form of a plaque to match the décor of the restaurant. I will take a photo of one tomorrow if I get a chance.

Since unlicensed possession is illegal regardless, why bother putting up the sign?

As I understand it, it is a TABC rule. If they sell alcohol in any way, they have to post one of the two (Unlicensed Possession 'Blue' sign - or - 51% 'Red' sign). Posting either is not a representation of whether they are pro- or anti- 2A, rather it is the law. Also, they still can post 30.06 if they want, although if they are truly a 51% location, it seems to be a bit of overkill. (however, I might be tempted to go into a 51% location, but if I found out that they were also posting 30.06, I'd probably change my mind due to their anti-2A perspective)

ATDM wrote:

Keith B wrote: I am 99% sure it is a Unlicensed possession sign that is in the form of a plaque to match the décor of the restaurant. I will take a photo of one tomorrow if I get a chance.

Since unlicensed possession is illegal regardless, why bother putting up the sign?

Actually, it is required by the TABC. And, carrying an unlicesned weapon into a locaiton that sells alcohol is a felony vs.a Class A misdemnor

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

Keith B wrote:

ATDM wrote:

Keith B wrote: I am 99% sure it is a Unlicensed possession sign that is in the form of a plaque to match the décor of the restaurant. I will take a photo of one tomorrow if I get a chance.

Since unlicensed possession is illegal regardless, why bother putting up the sign?

Actually, it is required by the TABC. And, carrying an unlicesned weapon into a locaiton that sells alcohol is a felony vs.a Class A misdemnor

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

Thanks, Keith. I still think it's ridiculous — the way they turned 6 pages of the constitution into hundreds of thousands of pages of unnecessary laws. If people know it's illegal to carry a gun without a license (which is a violation of the constitutional rights, in my opinion, in and of itself), why should they create more laws saying it's illegal that it's illegal that it's illegal? I know that the penalty would be more severe in certain places, but if someone decides to break the law by carrying, they cast the dice.

RoyGBiv wrote:

ATDM wrote:Why bother posting a sign, if it's unenforceable?

This is a question that connot be answered without asking..... and in almost every situation, you should NOT ask.
Informing a sign posting business that their sign is invalid is a BAD idea, because that might prompt them to correct the sign.

Answers...
1. They haven't kept up with the changing sign requirements
2. They never really knew the sign requirements, some corporate pencil pusher just sent them a sign and told them to put it up.
3...... And this is the big one......
Maybe they know the sign is non-compliant and they like it that way... Why? So that CHL's can carry and their anti-gun customers are none the wiser. The anti's see a sign and think "awesome", never really knowing it's non-compliant. And the CHL's see a non-compliant sign and think "awesome". Win-Win.

Since I have started carrying, I've noticed many non-compliant signs and smile a little as I walk by them. It is possible that they are aware that they are unenforceable (I even saw a sign this weekend that said something along the lines of "Possession of a Firearm by any licensed or un-licensed person will result in a $10,000 fine") and chose to make their anti-gun customers feel all warm and fuzzy.

ATDM wrote:Thanks, Keith. I still think it's ridiculous — the way they turned 6 pages of the constitution into hundreds of thousands of pages of unnecessary laws. If people know it's illegal to carry a gun without a license (which is a violation of the constitutional rights, in my opinion, in and of itself), why should they create more laws saying it's illegal that it's illegal that it's illegal? I know that the penalty would be more severe in certain places, but if someone decides to break the law by carrying, they cast the dice.

It boils down to years and years of changes and modifications to laws. There are leftover sentences and bits of law that get overlooked when a change is made and makes the law confusing, etc. In this case, I think it was really just a matter of the TABC requiring a sign to help identify if a location that sold alcohol for on-premise consumption was a >51% location (no carry at all) or a location that was <51% revenue from alcohol sales (licensed carry only allowed). The sign is also a means of reinforcing the enhancement to a felony during a trial if a person is caught carrying unlicensed as the defense can't say the person didn't know it was a felony to have a pistol there.

Keith B wrote:Actually, it is required by the TABC. And, carrying an unlicesned weapon into a locaiton that sells alcohol is a felony vs.a Class A misdemnor.

The use of this term has become ingrained in our lexicon. We associate the weapon with the license.

Reality is..... "An unlicensed PERSON carrying a weapon" is what's prohibited, since my weapon does not have it's own license.

The TABC gets it right...
Web site: "Weapons Warning Sign: It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law."
And the sign language also.... "The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony ....... "

I'm certain Keith knew the difference, I was just a bit tickled by the term...

In the words of Bill Engvalls, 'Here's Your Sign'.

It is not a 30.06 sign, it is the Unlicensed Possesion sign just made to look nice on the wall and match their decor. There was one in Spanish on the opposite side of the foyer at the Plano locaiton.

Just for giggles can I through out a little reverse logic?? If the sign says "The unlicensed possession of a weapon.... is illegal." Does that mean my licensed posession is legal?

mlawler wrote:Just for giggles can I through out a little reverse logic?? If the sign says "The unlicensed possession of a weapon.... is illegal." Does that mean my licensed posession is legal?

Actually, that's EXACTLY what it means!

Keith B wrote:In the words of Bill Engvalls, 'Here's Your Sign'.

It is not a 30.06 sign, it is the Unlicensed Possesion sign just made to look nice on the wall and match their decor. There was one in Spanish on the opposite side of the foyer at the Plano locaiton.

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I see these signs a lot on conveinence store doors & grocery stores. It kind of looks like a 30.06 at a glance. It's the "unlicensed" part that I like. Im legal to carry there.

One more thing! If it were up to me I would replace the 30.06 sigh with this "Unlicensed Possession" Sign!

Pecos wrote:One more thing! If it were up to me I would replace the 30.06 sigh with this "Unlicensed Possession" Sign!

Absolutely agree!

The CHL holders are law abiding citizens, who have been checked and re-checked. They are not likely to initiate a shoot-out or a hold-up. In fact, statistically, they are less likely to commit crime, period. I'd feel more comfortable surrounded by CHL holders than unarmed unknowns.

And, for the most part, CHL holders are sane.

You got that right ATDM !
People with 30.06 signs think CHL holders are reckless cowboys. Most of us are trained & training. I know there are a few bad apples with CHLs but that can be any group-even the LEOS.