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I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

cb1000rider wrote:I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

Until 1/1/14, a business could deny entry by any dog other than those helping the blind.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

Until 1/1/14, a business could deny entry by any dog other than those helping the blind.

Chas.

Charles,

Can you give me a reference on that change? I would like to see the revision. Prior there were regulations that prohibited denial of entry to public facilities (definition below). We raised a service dog and had to challenge the local DPS license office Sargent because she threatened to have my wife arrested if she didn't leave the office with the dog.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... HR.121.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(5) "Public facilities" includes a street, highway, sidewalk, walkway, common carrier, airplane, motor vehicle, railroad train, motor bus, streetcar, boat, or any other public conveyance or mode of transportation; a hotel, motel, or other place of lodging; a public building maintained by any unit or subdivision of government; a building to which the general public is invited; a college dormitory or other educational facility; a restaurant or other place where food is offered for sale to the public; and any other place of public accommodation, amusement, convenience, or resort to which the general public or any classification of persons from the general public is regularly, normally, or customarily invited.

Keith B wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

Until 1/1/14, a business could deny entry by any dog other than those helping the blind.

Chas.

Charles,

Can you give me a reference on that change? I would like to see the revision. Prior there were regulations that prohibited denial of entry to public facilities (definition below). We raised a service dog and had to challenge the local DPS license office Sargent because she threatened to have my wife arrested if she didn't leave the office with the dog.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... HR.121.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(5) "Public facilities" includes a street, highway, sidewalk, walkway, common carrier, airplane, motor vehicle, railroad train, motor bus, streetcar, boat, or any other public conveyance or mode of transportation; a hotel, motel, or other place of lodging; a public building maintained by any unit or subdivision of government; a building to which the general public is invited; a college dormitory or other educational facility; a restaurant or other place where food is offered for sale to the public; and any other place of public accommodation, amusement, convenience, or resort to which the general public or any classification of persons from the general public is regularly, normally, or customarily invited.

Just two days ago I heard a story on the radio about a veteran with his service dog in a Houston restaurant being asked to leave. He called the police. I am not sure of the final outcome.

MoJo wrote:I keep some of these cards in my wallet. 50 for seven bucks from TSRA.

[ Image ]

Looks close to the ones on Handgunlaw.us that you can print out yourself under the state of Texas section.

BAW1967 wrote:

MoJo wrote:I keep some of these cards in my wallet. 50 for seven bucks from TSRA.

[ Image ]

Looks close to the ones on Handgunlaw.us that you can print out yourself under the state of Texas section.

123print sells custom printed cards - 500 cards for $7.95.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

scokill wrote:Not that I'm for increased 30.06 signs... but freedom also applies to private property owners. There shouldn't be a question of it's freedom for CHL holders or tyranny if property owners exercise their rights under the law. Just my 2 cents.

Since 1997 when HB2909 passed, I've never seen a single 30.06 sign on a private residence. Realistically, we talking about private business property. How do you feel about the new Texas law (effective 1/1/2014) that requires businesses to allow veterans to enter with their service dogs? I'm not talking about blind customers, but all veterans with service dogs such as those that some PTSD patients use.

Chas.

The point was that hyperbole doesn't help "our" cause....i.e., if there are more 30.06 signs it's an abuse on our freedom. One view could be that others exercising their freedoms is just as important. Now you can get in to the 2nd amendment and take that all the way to constitutional right to carry a firearm anywhere you want without any restrictions, but that is another argument. I'm also for putting pressure to change laws that we don't agree with and making sure we vote in like minded representatives.

Question for the group: If a business is properly posted and you are carrying, you cannot lawfully enter the business. How do you give the card to the manager?

Mahzik wrote:Question for the group: If a business is properly posted and you are carrying, you cannot lawfully enter the business. How do you give the card to the manager?

That's called a conundrum.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

scokill wrote:Not that I'm for increased 30.06 signs... but freedom also applies to private property owners. There shouldn't be a question of it's freedom for CHL holders or tyranny if property owners exercise their rights under the law. Just my 2 cents.

Since 1997 when HB2909 passed, I've never seen a single 30.06 sign on a private residence. Realistically, we talking about private business property. How do you feel about the new Texas law (effective 1/1/2014) that requires businesses to allow veterans to enter with their service dogs? I'm not talking about blind customers, but all veterans with service dogs such as those that some PTSD patients use.

Chas.

In general, I do not have a problem with legitimate, certified service dogs being allowed access to any business. My only issue is that I have seen many people abuse the service dog rules and get their little purse dog "certified" as a service dog because it helps them with their "anxiety." These tend to be to people who just want to take their dogs everywhere with them. I have even seen one woman insist that her two poorly groomed Bichons were "service dogs" and demanded that the airline gate agent allow them on board with her loose - no paperwork, no vests, no nothing. But then again, I have the same issue with many of the people with handicap parking permits....

Mahzik wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

scokill wrote:Not that I'm for increased 30.06 signs... but freedom also applies to private property owners. There shouldn't be a question of it's freedom for CHL holders or tyranny if property owners exercise their rights under the law. Just my 2 cents.

Since 1997 when HB2909 passed, I've never seen a single 30.06 sign on a private residence. Realistically, we talking about private business property. How do you feel about the new Texas law (effective 1/1/2014) that requires businesses to allow veterans to enter with their service dogs? I'm not talking about blind customers, but all veterans with service dogs such as those that some PTSD patients use.

Chas.

In general, I do not have a problem with legitimate, certified service dogs being allowed access to any business. My only issue is that I have seen many people abuse the service dog rules and get their little purse dog "certified" as a service dog because it helps them with their "anxiety." These tend to be to people who just want to take their dogs everywhere with them. I have even seen one woman insist that her two poorly groomed Bichons were "service dogs" and demanded that the airline gate agent allow them on board with her loose - no paperwork, no vests, no nothing. But then again, I have the same issue with many of the people with handicap parking permits....

Since I became aware of this topic I have done a little research on the PTSD service dogs. I have no problem with dogs for the blind, but I think some of these others are going too far. I noticed that you can buy the vests on the internet so you can't be certain that the dogs are actually service dogs.

If it growls at you it is not a service dog. If it barks at you it is not a service dog. If it snaps at you it is not a service dog. Personally I don't care if a person has a dog with them as long as it is very well mannered and trained.

WildBill wrote:

Mahzik wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

scokill wrote:Not that I'm for increased 30.06 signs... but freedom also applies to private property owners. There shouldn't be a question of it's freedom for CHL holders or tyranny if property owners exercise their rights under the law. Just my 2 cents.

Since 1997 when HB2909 passed, I've never seen a single 30.06 sign on a private residence. Realistically, we talking about private business property. How do you feel about the new Texas law (effective 1/1/2014) that requires businesses to allow veterans to enter with their service dogs? I'm not talking about blind customers, but all veterans with service dogs such as those that some PTSD patients use.

Chas.

In general, I do not have a problem with legitimate, certified service dogs being allowed access to any business. My only issue is that I have seen many people abuse the service dog rules and get their little purse dog "certified" as a service dog because it helps them with their "anxiety." These tend to be to people who just want to take their dogs everywhere with them. I have even seen one woman insist that her two poorly groomed Bichons were "service dogs" and demanded that the airline gate agent allow them on board with her loose - no paperwork, no vests, no nothing. But then again, I have the same issue with many of the people with handicap parking permits....

Since I became aware of this topic I have done a little research on the PTSD service dogs. I have no problem with dogs for the blind, but I think some of these others are going too far. I noticed that you can buy the vests on the internet so you can't be certain that the dogs are actually service dogs.

I ran across a fellow the other day who was bragging about taking his dog everywhere. He just bought one of those vests off the interweb and, voila! Instant service dog.

This is off topic, but I was on a plane with a lady that had a smallish dog and it was dressed in clothes, had a hat and shirt that said service dog. She had it out and was playing with it and some folks asked about it. She said it was a therapy service dog and that he/she made her feel better.

I think it's great that the dog makes her feel better. She could have cancer, be terminally ill, or have mental problems but none were evident. If folks change the definition of a service dog, that's fine, but I always think of a service dog as someone who assists the physically disabled, like a "seeing eye dog" probably not politically correct in today's environment. I think therapy dogs are great but I'm sure there are those that will abuse.

What about service monkeys?

I would think they'd be a lot more helpful than a dog.

They have hands and a prehensile tail.

O.K., back on topic: Someone, a few posts back asked denied entrance by a 30.06 sign how could they give the business their card.

Answer: Mail them the card.

No, it's not as satisfying as handing them a card personally, but sometimes it better to light a candle than curse the darkness.