TexasCHLforum.com

goose wrote:

Jason K wrote: You can dance if you want to......

Hard Shell Baptists please disregard the above heracy. :-)

Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre!

(and doing the Safety Dance)

So yes you can CHL in church.

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

Interesting you mention that. Some of those could even apply to a mere citizen that is a member or congregant as some of those are roles of being a citizen.

The security guard laws are primarily to limit competition and protect income. Those in the industry will say it is to protect society from unqualified people acting as guards but I disagree.

My pastor and a few select staff and deacons know I carry. They know not to talk to me about helping as part of the security team. They also know I'll be one of the first to respond if as situation arises in my proximity.

But the answer to the op is that it is OK to carry as long as you haven't received effective notice.

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

I am the Pastor and I do not see me having to have a license to Pastor my church. It is not going to happen so I guess I am a criminal.

carlson1 wrote:

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

I am the Pastor and I do not see me having to have a license to Pastor my church. It is not going to happen so I guess I am a criminal.

Although I am not a pastor, but I am a part of the board members at our church. I feel that it is my obligation to also to assist in providing a safe environment for our members to come during Sunday worship. Since I am performing the above mentioned roles, would that mean I am in violation? I have no plans on getting licensed for security guard.

carlson1 wrote:

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

I am the Pastor and I do not see me having to have a license to Pastor my church. It is not going to happen so I guess I am a criminal.

My kind of pastor right there.

mojo84 wrote:

carlson1 wrote:

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

I am the Pastor and I do not see me having to have a license to Pastor my church. It is not going to happen so I guess I am a criminal.

My kind of pastor right there.

I see the security licensing as a non-issue. Carry on.

treeman wrote:I see the security licensing as a non-issue. Carry on.

Yep

The list posted above is part of the requirements of any retail store manager/assistant manager and a good deal of sales employees. They all are interested in these items as they effect the bottom line. So, why would a church need licensed security for this?

MeMelYup wrote:The list posted above is part of the requirements of any retail store manager/assistant manager and a good deal of sales employees. They all are interested in these items as they effect the bottom line. So, why would a church need licensed security for this?

To protect and limit security competition. Follow the money. It's pretty frustrating I have to have a license to do what I do. The continuing education near worthless and is just an ongoing additional tax and money grab.

I am not a part of any security team as defined bu the codes. However, my pastor carries and is aware that I carry (I got him interested in firearms several years ago). There are several others that carry as well and we know who most of them are.

My pastor came to me a few years ago and said he was reserving my table in the sanctuary (we dont have pews but have tables with chairs around them). This has been the table that my family has sat at since we started going to this church some 10 years ago. It gives me the best view of both doors and the entire sanctuary which is why I chose it. However, until he reserved it for us, there were times that we were late for various reasons and someone else would sit there. Now he know why I sit where I do and that was the reason for him reserving it for us.

RPBrown wrote:I am not a part of any security team as defined bu the codes. However, my pastor carries and is aware that I carry (I got him interested in firearms several years ago). There are several others that carry as well and we know who most of them are.

My pastor came to me a few years ago and said he was reserving my table in the sanctuary (we dont have pews but have tables with chairs around them). This has been the table that my family has sat at since we started going to this church some 10 years ago. It gives me the best view of both doors and the entire sanctuary which is why I chose it. However, until he reserved it for us, there were times that we were late for various reasons and someone else would sit there. Now he know why I sit where I do and that was the reason for him reserving it for us.

We have members that have assigned pews and seats, but they assigned them themselves as in 'I always sit there, that's my pew'. I don't want to cross a couple of those little gray-haired ladies; I'm not sure I could win the fight!

It really all boils down to the fact of is it an official function for security or not. When you name it 'Security Team', then you are officially doing a security function. If you are an usher, candle lighter, choir member, etc and it is just known that you have your CHL and may utilize it if necessary, then you are not 'assigned' the function of providing security. Even without my CHL I would try to stop a crazed person who was attacking someone in the hallway or sanctuary, but it is not my 'official job' at the church; my official title is 'member'.

jbarn wrote: Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

If this is something that anyone in Texas ever contemplates enforcing, then, as my NYPD friends say, it needs to be repealed FORTHWITH. During the gasoline shortage of days past, I openly carried a 1911 and 4 extra mags to prevent all kinds of mischief on company property I was charged with managing. DPD had no problems with it - and we had to call them frequently.

I would expect anyone trying to enforce this on a church might encounter rather more resistance than they anticipate. Makes me want to legislatively slap more restrictions on private security firms.

We have an Eyes and Ears team at our church but they are not allowed to carry when serving in this capacity (Even the LEO's serving are not allowed to). Due to the CODE stated earlier this is the church policy for the team only. However, if on campus for regular activities or service we are allowed to carry without gaining permission. Our pastor, 5 of the 8 Elders, and many congregants are known to carry so we are well covered from all angles.