TexasCHLforum.com

Oldgringo wrote:

Vol Texan wrote:

Hindenburg wrote:

pcarlinjr wrote:Where do you live that would make you want to open carry? I prefer people not know that I own guns.

Where do you live that you don't want people to know that you own guns?

{snip}
Imagine you're in a bank open carrying and in walks a robber. Who does he target as his first victim to be subdued and disarmed (or worse)? Yes, the one with the gun. {snip}

...and you know this how?

I don't "know" this, because every situation is different. What I'm describing are my personal reasons for preferring concealed carry. Others may disagree, and that is their prerogative.

For me, I have to believe that there is SOME possibility that if a robber walked in (casually, one last time pre-casing the place before announcing his intentions), that PERHAPS if he identified an open carrier (and if he were still inclined to continue with his idiotic quest) that he MIGHT pay some teensy bit more attention to the guy who is obviously armed.

Perhaps not. Perhaps he'll see your open carried gun, walk in front of you, turn his back on you, and then announce to the bank (with you clearly behind him) that he is here to rob it. Perhaps once he sees your gun, he'll intentionally never look your way. Perhaps he'll just press his luck and assume that you won't try to stop him.

That's just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Or maybe he'll focus first on the obviously armed guy and disarm him first. One just wonders what he might do...

(edited to add: sorry if I came off a bit harsh - no offense was intended, OldGringo)

Texas1999 wrote:
Once I enter my vehicle, however, I must then conceal the handgun pursuant to Sec. 46.02(a-1)....UNLESS I am "traveling," in which case I may continue to open carry the handgun because pursuant to Penal Code 46.15(b)(2), if you are "traveling" then Section 46.02 does not apply.

Under no circumstances may I openly carry my handgun when not on my premises or "traveling" in a vehicle I own or under my control.

Am I missing anything? My understanding is there is no definition of "traveling" in Texas law, so you could get arrested anyways if the handgun is in plain view, even if you truly are "traveling" hundreds of miles along a highway in your vehicle...? Guess it would make sense to flip your shirt over the handgun if pulled over and now it is "concealed" and permitted under Sec. 46.02(a-1) (or permitted under your CHL if you have one) and it would be a non-issue...

You can't open carry while "travelling" in your car. The gun (handgun) must be concealed. If you were to get pulled over with an openly displayed handgun you would be subject to the same laws as walking down the street and openly displaying a handgun.

TVGuy wrote:

Texas1999 wrote:
Once I enter my vehicle, however, I must then conceal the handgun pursuant to Sec. 46.02(a-1)....UNLESS I am "traveling," in which case I may continue to open carry the handgun because pursuant to Penal Code 46.15(b)(2), if you are "traveling" then Section 46.02 does not apply.

Under no circumstances may I openly carry my handgun when not on my premises or "traveling" in a vehicle I own or under my control.

Am I missing anything? My understanding is there is no definition of "traveling" in Texas law, so you could get arrested anyways if the handgun is in plain view, even if you truly are "traveling" hundreds of miles along a highway in your vehicle...? Guess it would make sense to flip your shirt over the handgun if pulled over and now it is "concealed" and permitted under Sec. 46.02(a-1) (or permitted under your CHL if you have one) and it would be a non-issue...

You can't open carry while "travelling" in your car. The gun (handgun) must be concealed. If you were to get pulled over with an openly displayed handgun you would be subject to the same laws as walking down the street and openly displaying a handgun.

I think I disagree. Others in this thread have noted that everything is legal unless specifically prohibited by a law. In this case, the only law prohibiting open carry of a handgun in a vehicle is 46.02. Hence if I'm in a situation where 46.02 doesn't apply, it means I can open carry in my vehicle...providing I am not in violation of another law that would make that behavior illegal (such as 42.01(8), displaying in a manner calculated to cause alarm, or if I was a convicted felon and couldn't legally possess a handgun, etc.).

If I'm "traveling," 46.15 says that 46.02 doesn't apply. Thus, I can carry a handgun in my vehicle "on or about my person" and it need not be out of "plain view" per 46.02(a-1)(1), since 46.02 is the only law that would prohibit that behavior, and it doesn't apply while I'm "traveling."

This is more of an "academic" discussion, mind you. I don't intend to openly carry in a vehicle. Just curious as to what OTHER law would prohibit open carry of a handgun in my vehicle if I'm in a situation (I.e., "traveling") where 46.02 does not apply to prohibit it.

Motorist Protection Act

(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

Yes I understand the MPA (Sec. 46.02(a-1)) requires the handgun to be concealed...but the MPA is a part of Sec. 46.02, and Sec. 46.15 says that if I'm "traveling," then Sec. 46.02 as a whole (which includes the MPA) is not applicable.

mojo84 wrote:Motorist Protection Act

(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

Texas1999 wrote:Yes I understand the MPA (Sec. 46.02(a-1)) requires the handgun to be concealed...but the MPA is a part of Sec. 46.02, and Sec. 46.15 says that if I'm "traveling," then Sec. 46.02 as a whole (which includes the MPA) is not applicable.

mojo84 wrote:Motorist Protection Act

(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

I'm curious to hear more on this. I see what you're saying, but it's different from everything I've seen/heard.

Doesn't it say traveling directly to or from your vehicle or home? If that's the case, once you arrive at your vehicle, you need to conceal it per MPA. Right? What am I missing about your question?

mojo84 wrote:Doesn't it say traveling directly to or from your vehicle or home? If that's the case, once you arrive at your vehicle, you need to conceal it per MPA. Right? What am I missing about your question?

If you have to conceal when traveling then you also have to conceal when hunting, because 46.15 covers both.

mojo84 wrote:Doesn't it say traveling directly to or from your vehicle or home? If that's the case, once you arrive at your vehicle, you need to conceal it per MPA. Right? What am I missing about your question?

Mojo - I'm not trying to be rude, but I've explained it twice now. "Traveling" has nothing to do with walking to or from your car. You can look up Sec. 46.15(b)(2). It specifically says that 46.02 is not applicable if you are "traveling," which in my opinion means it's legal to open carry a handgun in your vehicle if you are "traveling" because 46.02 (which includes the MPA) doesn't apply under such circumstances, and 46.02 is what prohibits open carry of a handgun.

Again, it boils down to what constitutes "traveling" since the Legislature has refused to define that term.

Glad you guys have it all figured out then.

Throw your handgun up on the dash next time you are driving around town or get stopped by a cop and let me know how it works out for you.

mojo84 wrote:Glad you guys have it all figured out then.

Throw your handgun up on the dash next time you are driving around town or get stopped by a cop and let me know how it works out for you.

mojo84 wrote:Throw your handgun up on the dash next time you are driving around town

I don't want to end up like Richard Manauzzzi but thanks for sharing.

Texas1999 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Doesn't it say traveling directly to or from your vehicle or home? If that's the case, once you arrive at your vehicle, you need to conceal it per MPA. Right? What am I missing about your question?

Mojo - I'm not trying to be rude, but I've explained it twice now. "Traveling" has nothing to do with walking to or from your car. You can look up Sec. 46.15(b)(2). It specifically says that 46.02 is not applicable if you are "traveling," which in my opinion means it's legal to open carry a handgun in your vehicle if you are "traveling" because 46.02 (which includes the MPA) doesn't apply under such circumstances, and 46.02 is what prohibits open carry of a handgun.

Again, it boils down to what constitutes "traveling" since the Legislature has refused to define that term.

That is a very interesting point Texas1999. We don't have any problem accepting that open carry is legal when hunting or going directly to and form our vehicle, which is mentioned right after travelling as an exception. And as you also eluded to, travelling has not been defined by the legislature, so that probably leaves it up to a judge or jury to decide.

victory wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Throw your handgun up on the dash next time you are driving around town

I don't want to end up like Richard Manauzzzi but thanks for sharing.

Likewise

Texas1999 wrote:Yes I understand the MPA (Sec. 46.02(a-1)) requires the handgun to be concealed...but the MPA is a part of Sec. 46.02, and Sec. 46.15 says that if I'm "traveling," then Sec. 46.02 as a whole (which includes the MPA) is not applicable.

mojo84 wrote:Motorist Protection Act

<SNIP>

The "books" are full of laws that were written one way, then modified by another superseding or subsequent related code (later code overriding or modifying the earlier). Waaaay back before CHL and MPA I had contacted DPS to clarify "traveling". I remember almost exactly what he said, "Traveling is traveling, county lines don't matter. There is no concealed or unconcealed, loaded or unloaded; you are either carrying legally or your not. That said we'd prefer it was loaded and out of sight. Unloaded won't do you any good and out in the open tends to upset folks."

Now this was a DPS commander and not a lawyer, but I carried with that advise for years before CHL and even on the odd occasion I had to reveal I had a weapon to LEO, I never got worse than a grimace.

But "traveling" was a defense to prosecution (after arrest and charges) not an affirmative (this is allowed) law. There was also, to my knowledge, anything stating how the weapon was to be carried. BUT, since then both CHL and MPA have become the law of the land and "traveling" is almost anachronistic. So the safe bet would be that since the CHL and MPA both specifically make it an offense to intentionally carry in plain view; hanging your hat on "traveling" as a defense for open carry will most certainly get you a talking to if not charged.