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AlaskanInTexas wrote:

philip964 wrote:So how many setting your grandchild or child on top of the railing of the pit housing the -name the dangerous animal- stories are we going to have to read about or see on video before this stupidity stops.

Answer. It will never stop, as Darwin always is there improving the breed.

Wouldn't Darwin postulate that this behavior would eventually stop as the child-on-rail-putters are eventually self-withdrawn from the gene pool?

It sounds like Big D dropped the ball. I don't see that baby daddy lifted a finger to save his own child.

I am a big fan of this big cat - go figure. The jaguar has the greatest bite force of all the big cats while being smaller than only the lion and tiger. These cats employ this huge bite force in a unique way, biting through the skull of its prey to kill it, the only big cat that does that (can do that?). A three years old's skull would offer no resistance.

I saw a Survivorman show on the Discovery Channel where Les Stroud quit due to being stalked by a jaguar, the only time I have seen him seek shelter out of the wild during the filming of the show. These cats are apex predators, and they are no joke. If the jaguars believed this child was prey he would have been dead - so in my opinion they were more curious than hungry, animals at good zoos tend to be fed well and know the schedule. Even then, jaguars "play things" often don't fair very well.

I can't say what I'd do were a child to fall into a jaguar exhibit while I was there. I'd like to think I would shoot, but as longtooth pointed out it would be a difficult shot. Unless it was my kid and I lost all sense of reality I would not jump in, you may become a threat instead of a play thing and that wouldn't end well. Maybe shoot at the ground and hope to scare the cats away, maybe shoot the cats in the hind quarters and hope to distract them enough for rescue workers to have time to act. The life of the kid trumps the life of the cats, but unless I have the tools to make the perfect shot I just don't know - and don't want to find out.

Jaguar

Jaguar wrote:<SNIP>

I saw a Survivorman show on the Discovery Channel where Les Stroud quit due to being stalked by a jaguar, the only time I have seen him seek shelter out of the wild during the filming of the show. These cats are apex predators, and they are no joke. If the jaguars believed this child was prey he would have been dead - so in my opinion they were more curious than hungry, animals at good zoos tend to be fed well and know the schedule. Even then, jaguars "play things" often don't fair very well.<SNIP>

Cats see anything smaller than them as prey. Though capable of quickly dispatching prey they are also known to "play" with their food. Think about your house cat playing with a lizard or mouse before the one quick bite when it tires of the "enrichment". Now multiply that 50 or 60 times and you can see the devastation even if the cat is in no particular hurry to end it. Even if it is an affectionate animal. Our last trip to the Alabama Gulf Coast Zoo we saw two adult tigers my daughters got to play with as cubs. These animals love people and LOVE their handlers but as the handler said as she was loving on the cat through the chain link, "We don't get in with them, they love us very much but they can love you to death."

I don't know what I'd do in the OP's scenario, I suppose it depends a lot on sight picture, how close they are and whether or not there was a reasonable chance I could get to the kid without breaking something on the way.

OT but substantially similar. In third grade a classmate fell into the hyena pit at OKC Zoo (WPA construction, low ralings) and the pack immediately attacked him, he got the first one and started swinging it like a club; this is a ten year old understand. He kept swinging, hitting and kicking until the keepers got there and shot one and corralled the rest. The one he was swinging was dead, his legs were chewed up but he recovered and was back in school a month or so later. Adrenaline is an amazing adjunct to physical acumen.

[quote="Jim Beaux"]It depends. If it were a teenager I would let the cats have

HA!!

OT but substantially similar. In third grade a classmate fell into the hyena pit at OKC Zoo (WPA construction, low ralings) and the pack immediately attacked him, he got the first one and started swinging it like a club; this is a ten year old understand. He kept swinging, hitting and kicking until the keepers got there and shot one and corralled the rest. The one he was swinging was dead, his legs were chewed up but he recovered and was back in school a month or so later. Adrenaline is an amazing adjunct to physical acumen.[/quote]



So the whole school must have been in awe of this kid until he graduated! That's incredible thinking! Bravo!!

CHLLady wrote:OT but substantially similar. In third grade a classmate fell into the hyena pit at OKC Zoo (WPA construction, low ralings) and the pack immediately attacked him, he got the first one and started swinging it like a club; this is a ten year old understand. He kept swinging, hitting and kicking until the keepers got there and shot one and corralled the rest. The one he was swinging was dead, his legs were chewed up but he recovered and was back in school a month or so later. Adrenaline is an amazing adjunct to physical acumen.



So the whole school must have been in awe of this kid until he graduated! That's incredible thinking! Bravo!!

He had a LOT of friends after that, being both a local celebrity and Tarzan incarnate.

I have a 3 year old... they are in to EVERYTHING and need to be constantly monitored. I mean, you cannot turn away for more than 3-5 seconds. Parent's fault on this one.

That being said, even though the Fort Worth zoo is posted 30.06 (illegally, the city of Fort Worth owns it, some zoo association just runs it), I carry my G21 every time I go.

Agreed, a few warning shots in front or around the critter, hopefully in a sandy/ dusty area that kicks up some dust in their face and they will get the hint to stay away. If not, any human life is more valuable than any animal life, so I would shoot every animal in the zoo if I had to in order to protect a human life.

I carry with two spare mags... I have no idea how many rounds of .45 a big cat could soak up, but I am guessing it is a few.

longtooth wrote:Some folks are a lot more sure of their marksmanship than I am.

It's not so much that I'm so sure of my marksmanship... With two big cats turning the victim into dinner, there's not a big window to act before it doesn't much matter.

If it was me or my kid, I'd want them to take the shot.

Jerry Clower comes to mind: 'just shoot in here amongst us, one of us has got to have some relief'

Dave2 wrote:

longtooth wrote:Some folks are a lot more sure of their marksmanship than I am.

It's not so much that I'm so sure of my marksmanship... With two big cats turning the victim into dinner, there's not a big window to act before it doesn't much matter.

If it was me or my kid, I'd want them to take the shot.

If they are attacking with the intent to kill and eat immediately, I am not even sure you could recognize the threat and draw quick enough to prevent them from reaching the kid. If you have a few moments while the cats see the kid and think about it, that gives you more time.

I'll play Devil's Advocate. Please avoid getting personal here as I am only playing Devil's Advocate-unless a tiger appears in an Alamo Drafthouse of course, then its dying time if it messes with my pizza or Jim Beam...

I wouldn't.
*Odds are you're going to hit the kid.
*Odds are if someone not authorized opens up in a zoo they are giong to jail/maybe shot by police responding to the scene (maybe the original scene itself).
*Who's going to pay for the care, maintenance, and education of MY family while I am defending myself or in jail now because of some other idiot? He sure isn't.

For those of you who would not take the shot out of fear of hitting the child, how would you react if it was your child? I know most people will say, " that wont happen to me", but mostly everyone here has a chl because we know that we can be put in situations we do not want to be in. Would you take the shot in this that situation?

Javier730 wrote:For those of you who would not take the shot out of fear of hitting the child, how would you react if it was your child? I know most people will say, " that wont happen to me", but mostly everyone here has a chl because we know that we can be put in situations we do not want to be in. Would you take the shot in this that situation?

You didn't give me enough detail to know if I could make the shot, but I don't think I could live with shooting my own child. On the flip side, if it was my own child, adrenaline might cause me to throw caution to the wind and go in to rescue my child.

Javier730 wrote:For those of you who would not take the shot out of fear of hitting the child, how would you react if it was your child? I know most people will say, " that wont happen to me", but mostly everyone here has a chl because we know that we can be put in situations we do not want to be in. Would you take the shot in this that situation?

The hypothetical however, is that its not my child or grandchild.