TexasCHLforum.com

surferdaddy wrote:

koine2002 wrote:

rvsullivan wrote:She has since turned herself in the local law enforcement, no charges filed yet.
Wouldn't this cover the situation though:
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

I've though of that provision for justified use of deadly force. The question for me is if the purse snatcher was committing robbery or theft. If the latter, it wasn't at nighttime.

I have no formal legal training, but as I understand it, theft is taking someone else's property while robbery is taking property FROM someone.

Surfer

My mistake, this was exactly what I was looking for...

During my CHL class, the instructor never was able to clarify on the "during the nighttime" part, there may not be a precedent set for that yet.

Sec. 29.03. AGGRAVATED ROBBERY.
(a) A person commits an offense if he commits robbery as defined in Section 29.02, and he:
(1) causes serious bodily injury to another;
(2) uses or exhibits a deadly weapon; or
(3) causes bodily injury to another person or threatens or places another person in fear of imminent bodily injury or death, if the other person is:
(A) 65 years of age or older; or
(B) a disabled person.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.
(c) In this section, "disabled person" means an individual with a mental, physical, or developmental disability who is substantially unable to protect himself from harm.

See the red above. Don't come after me!

On the question of a definition of nighttime:

Sec. 541.401. MISCELLANEOUS TERMS. In this subtitle:

(1) "Daytime" means the period beginning one-half hour before sunrise and ending one-half hour after sunset.

...

(5) "Nighttime" means the period beginning one-half hour after sunset and ending one-half hour before sunrise.

This comes from the TRANSPORTATION CODE but it could be argued as a legal definition of nighttime. If you were charged, it would ultimately be up to a jury to decide whether you were allowed by law to act with lethal force.

Anyhow - a warning shot? I don't think that is covered anywhere but then I am new to this.

surferdaddy wrote:I have no formal legal training, but as I understand it, theft is taking someone else's property while robbery is taking property FROM someone.

Surfer

Not quite right for Texas. Texas has a crime of theft from person to include situations such as pickpockets and some purse snatchings. The difference is if there is force or the threat of force involved in the theft or fleeing from it. That would make it robbery over theft.

Some examples include grabbing a purse from a woman who does not resist and just let's go. That would be theft. Grabbing a purse from the woman next to her who grabs back and pulls it back towards her would make it robbery.

Normally, taking merchandise from a store shelf is theft (shoplifting). I had one case where the shoplifter was observed by the manager. When she went to question him, he ran and knocked her down. That made it robbery instead of theft.

And this is why what actually happened at the scene is so critical to the shooting case.

The shooter is a step closer to having her day in court. According to kwtx.com, the case is being referred to a grand jury.

Assuming the charges being sought were reasonable and assuming no further information other than what appears to have happened in the video, I would vote to indict.

That is not out of sympathy with the apparent punk. He defied law, order, and decency, if the full story is out. But if one were to be shot in the commission of a purse snatching by a good samaritan, it ought to be done within the constraints of a bystander's responsibilities - and prosecuted otherwise.

What would Joe Horn do?

I think her crime, if there was one, was missing. If she had killed him, we could all be gratified in the age old Texan value of our forefathers that if you are doing something you aren't supposed to be doing, and something bad happens to you, it's nobody's problem but yours.

Joe Horn killed two perps and no-billed.

Does a Grand Jury only indict for felonies ? If so, that's possible big trouble for the shooter.

Can anyone properly confirm or deny if the woman had a CHL? I heard she did NOT have one, but I would really like to know for sure.

K.Mooneyham wrote:Can anyone properly confirm or deny if the woman had a CHL? I heard she did NOT have one, but I would really like to know for sure.

From today's Waco Trib:"Detective Kory Martin said the woman, who does not have a concealed handgun license, met with police later Friday after she learned through media reports that officers wanted to speak to her about the incident."

I'm in favor of Constitutional carry, However, this instance reeks of bad judgement and the need for training both book and handgun proficiency.

To me, that didn't look like a warning shot. It looked like a nervous shot trying to come on target. I've heard multiple times that most shootings (police included) 1st-2nd shots are sometimes in the ground because the pull the trigger too soon.

I'm interested to know what the perp was charged with.

So, I've looked up what people are charged with in various counties, even myself (ahem), but it looks like McLennan County doesn't do online searches! :(

http://www.co.mclennan.tx.us/172/Criminal-Searches
The perp: Andre Dawson

Maybe someone else has another method? I'm sure knowing the perp's name, date of incident, location, etc, we could figure it out.

Well, I found this:
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/greater_wa ... 94274.html

The man accused of attempting to steal a purse from a shopping cart, Andre Dawson, 27, remained in jail with a $10,000 bond late Saturday under a misdemeanor charge of theft of property and a felony charge of credit or debit card abuse. Martin said if the purse contained a credit or debit card, it would have triggered the credit card charge.

Dawson also has a previous theft conviction, according to jail records. A single prior conviction would not raise the theft charge to the level of a felony, Martin said.