TexasCHLforum.com

Dreamer42 wrote:There are a few of our church members out of 90+ in regular attendance who carry. We do not post 30-06, but we just had a meeting about 30-07, and other safety/emergency concerns from rude behavior, to medical emergency and fire escape, etc. We will be posting 30-07 come January 2016. We simply don't want the added concerns or distractions when folks come to worship. Not really anything about one's rights, but just to ease people's minds, especially should we have visitors. Should we have someone who does OC, we'll simply invite them to conceal or leave. They will be welcome to return once corrected.

If you post a sign, on the lower right corner be sure to put CCOK.

Our senior pastor and song leader sit (facing the congregation) up on the platform area next to the pulpit. We also have a couple of deacons that sit at the back of the church. At the next business meeting I'm going to suggest that each of them open carry....with an AR15.

MeMelYup wrote:

Dreamer42 wrote:There are a few of our church members out of 90+ in regular attendance who carry. We do not post 30-06, but we just had a meeting about 30-07, and other safety/emergency concerns from rude behavior, to medical emergency and fire escape, etc. We will be posting 30-07 come January 2016. We simply don't want the added concerns or distractions when folks come to worship. Not really anything about one's rights, but just to ease people's minds, especially should we have visitors. Should we have someone who does OC, we'll simply invite them to conceal or leave. They will be welcome to return once corrected.

If you post a sign, on the lower right corner be sure to put CCOK.

I don't really see the need to add the "CCOK". CHL holders know that, and the 30.07 sign gives others a sense of safety.

We are a congregation of approx. 1500

Last night I was asked to meet with the elders regarding the change in the law and our options. There was productive discussion and the decision was made to have a soft policy asking for the continued concealed carrying of firearms. Our leadership is not considering posting or using the 30.07 language.

The leadership did not appear to be opposed to open carry but rather are concerned about the distraction or disruption that it may cause. Romans 14 states that even though an action may be legal if it causes someone to stumble we should be respectful and refrain from that action.

We will run announcements in the bulletin and monitors for weeks leading up to the 1st requesting CHL/LTC to continue to keep their firearms concealed. On Jan. 3rd we will station a few individuals at the entrances in the event anyone comes in OC. We will explain our position and politely ask them to cover, secure it in their vehicle, or leave. Escalation will depend on the individual's compliance. We don't anticipate any problems but we wish to be prepared.

By adopting this attitude I feel it allows us a little wiggle room that if someone exposes their firearm the general membership will realize that it is legal and the church would rather you not open carry but accidents happen and if it is corrected in a timely and humble manner then no-harm-no-foul. Any person that seems to push the issue has heart problems and they will be address appropriately. I think the announcements will also open a few eyes that we already have firearms in the building and nothing happens. I hope this will incubate a positive image of gun ownership and carry.

As much as I favor constitutional carry and support open carry (even though I will rarely do it) I think this is a good compromise. In a year or two, maybe even sooner, it may be unnecessary as the population is exposed to the idea of OC. Right now we don't want the first exposure to OC to be the person sitting next to old lady Jones on the pew Jan. 3rd. It is so early in the game that it will take some time for people to get used to it.

Our elders are very appreciative of conceal carry.

troglodyte wrote:... Romans 14 states ...

I find Romans 14 to be instructive. I find 1 Corinthians 8 to be compelling, especially verse 9:

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Through this winter, I will be wearing my suit coat. Incidentally, the coat will cover my OWB holster and pistol. Other than inside the sanctuary, I will take off my coat whenever that would be more comfortable. Inside the sanctuary, I'll carry concealed.

We should be able to achieve a balance between our rights and our responsibilities.

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Romans 14, specifically v.19-20b, 15:1 and I Cor. 8:9 will be in my discussion with anyone that may wish to press the issue. This moves beyond man's rights and to "... making every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification." v.19. If open carry disrupts services or causes another member to question their faith then keeping it concealed is a satisfactory compromise to me. I would prefer that everyone think like me and have no issue with it but that is not reality. Maybe, with time, they will. Until then I'm content to still be armed and help in keeping the flock safe.

The Annoyed Man wrote:
{snip}
....not "deliberately open carry".

I like that phraseology.

Seems like the responses shared here have been very thoughtful.

oljames3 wrote:

troglodyte wrote:... Romans 14 states ...

I find Romans 14 to be instructive. I find 1 Corinthians 8 to be compelling, especially verse 9:

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Through this winter, I will be wearing my suit coat. Incidentally, the coat will cover my OWB holster and pistol. Other than inside the sanctuary, I will take off my coat whenever that would be more comfortable. Inside the sanctuary, I'll carry concealed.

We should be able to achieve a balance between our rights and our responsibilities.

Both passages give good direction. Now don't make me separate you two!

One way I look at it is this: I have many rights before man (Constitution of the United States), but only one right before God, and that is the right to call him Father (John 1:12)......but only because he has graciously allowed me to be part of his family (Eph 2:8-10). When a congregation is gathered for worship, teaching, and/or fellowship, there are always going to be people who are further along their spiritual walk than others, and that may necessarily include new believers, or even seekers. What's more, I have found in my essentially conservative baptist church several people who have pretty liberal political viewpoints. I have one friend whose commitment to Christ is admirably carried out in his life walk, who also happens to be very anti-gun, and he (like me) is one of the active leaders in the congregation. So while I naturally believe my own views to be correct, in God's economy there are higher priorities than my own.....or the other guy's. This requires humility (not that I have attained it to any degree, but I can keep trying), and humility requires (among other things) a willingness to not unnecessarily give offense, and a willingness to not always have the last word.

In God's economy, my secular right to openly carry a firearm PALES in comparison to my spiritual obligation to welcome a newcomer into my church, or to contribute to the well-being of my brothers and sisters in the faith. If I have a habit that sets another person's teeth on edge, and I am aware of that habit, then I have a spiritual obligation to moderate it........not codependently by expecting equal treatment in return, but because I believe that is what God requires of me. So I have no trouble at all with the decision to continue concealing at church.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

oljames3 wrote:

troglodyte wrote:... Romans 14 states ...

I find Romans 14 to be instructive. I find 1 Corinthians 8 to be compelling, especially verse 9:

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Through this winter, I will be wearing my suit coat. Incidentally, the coat will cover my OWB holster and pistol. Other than inside the sanctuary, I will take off my coat whenever that would be more comfortable. Inside the sanctuary, I'll carry concealed.

We should be able to achieve a balance between our rights and our responsibilities.

Both passages give good direction. Now don't make me separate you two!

One way I look at it is this: I have many rights before man (Constitution of the United States), but only one right before God, and that is the right to call him Father (John 1:12)......but only because he has graciously allowed me to be part of his family (Eph 2:8-10). When a congregation is gathered for worship, teaching, and/or fellowship, there are always going to be people who are further along their spiritual walk than others, and that may necessarily include new believers, or even seekers. What's more, I have found in my essentially conservative baptist church several people who have pretty liberal political viewpoints. I have one friend whose commitment to Christ is admirably carried out in his life walk, who also happens to be very anti-gun, and he (like me) is one of the active leaders in the congregation. So while I naturally believe my own views to be correct, in God's economy there are higher priorities than my own.....or the other guy's. This requires humility (not that I have attained it to any degree, but I can keep trying), and humility requires (among other things) a willingness to not unnecessarily give offense, and a willingness to not always have the last word.

In God's economy, my secular right to openly carry a firearm PALES in comparison to my spiritual obligation to welcome a newcomer into my church, or to contribute to the well-being of my brothers and sisters in the faith. If I have a habit that sets another person's teeth on edge, and I am aware of that habit, then I have a spiritual obligation to moderate it........not codependently by expecting equal treatment in return, but because I believe that is what God requires of me. So I have no trouble at all with the decision to continue concealing at church.

TAM, this is beautifully written.

SewTexas wrote: TAM, this is beautifully written.

Agreed.

Out church is not going to post a 30:07 sign unless it becomes a problem. We have a lot of CC. If the problem arises of OC then we will post signs at all entrances. All CC welcome, but no OC.

I've got it!

Maybe the churches could set up a booth and have everybody check their OC at the door? You know, like they sometimes did in the saloons and upon entering some towns in some of the old cowboy movies.

Our church installed compliant 30.07 signs at all public entrances this week. I was pushing to just deal with it on a case by case basis. I think a lot of people on both sides of the issue are making it out to be much more than it really is.

I am as much of a "Any gun any where" guy as you can get... and while I do not believe that any place, including a church, deserves any sort of special reverence when it comes to carrying firearms, I just don't see OCing in a church. I think, of all places, it would be most distracting there... even more than in a college classroom. I will OC every so often, if nothing else than to exercise that "privilege", but I will always believe that CC is the best default setting for carrying a pistol in public. I conceal all the time, even in our church... even in our Temples. I'm LDS by the way.

Our church has a policy that states that carrying lethal weapons in the building is "inappropriate". To me, that is not a statement of prohibition, and certainly not legal notice. I will continue to carry concealed.