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Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:44 pm**

this just makes me sad.....

I am so sorry for all of you that are impacted by these decisions.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:46 pm**

The Annoyed Man wrote:Please forgive me for my previous snicker, I meant no harm. And I meant no disrespect either with my previous offer. If I were in your shoes, I would be pretty upset about it. I know it's not a Catholic church, but I think that God loves us Baptists too and Jesus died for us too. So if someone is looking for a temporary place to worship until they can get things sorted out with their diocese, my invitation is a sincere one. Just let me know if you are Catholic and living in my area. I'll be glad to connect with you and introduce you around my church until you can get back to a Catholic church that can accommodate your carry.

Blessings.

x2.

I'm a Reformed Baptist that's been a member of a Presbyterian (PCA) church for 7+ years. I'd be in a real bind if this happened to me because I love my church family and leadership so much. I'm devoted to concealed carry, but I'm not sure I'd leave my church over it. There would be much inner turmoil. . . I offer my sympathies.

JALLEN wrote:The Methodists and Presbyterians are in the same boat, per their national governing organizations. I don't know about signs at individual churches.

I have not heard anything from PCA or OPC flavors of Presbyterianism. My church (PCA) is friendly to concealed carry. I sent my pastor a long message explaining the changes in the law before Jan 1. So far they are not posting 30.07, but I wouod expect that they would ask open carriers to cover up.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:02 pm**

I don't give a dang what you are . Trust in GOD , believe in GOD . Follow your heart , ..............PRAY and pray fervently before making decision . You will live your decision .

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:29 pm**

The Annoyed Man wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
fickman wrote:I would recommend writing your grievances down on paper and nailing them to the door of the church.

Didn't somebody else do this some time back?
OK guys. It was funny once. It isn't funny any more.
Please forgive me for my previous snicker, I meant no harm. And I meant no disrespect either with my previous offer. If I were in your shoes, I would be pretty upset about it. I know it's not a Catholic church, but I think that God loves us Baptists too and Jesus died for us too. So if someone is looking for a temporary place to worship until they can get things sorted out with their diocese, my invitation is a sincere one. Just let me know if you are Catholic and living in my area. I'll be glad to connect with you and introduce you around my church until you can get back to a Catholic church that can accommodate your carry.

Blessings.

Thanks TAM.

The Catholic Church has faced much worse over the years. It is a pity that politics and secular issues makes it difficult to practice one's faith in peace and reverence. Beiruty posted recently on his issues with his mosque so I relate to his issues now in a sense of brotherhood.

Thanks to all for the offer of prayers and support. I know that nothing was intended in disrespect.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:42 pm**

No disrespect at all , only concern ,

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:04 pm**

fickman wrote:

JALLEN wrote:The Methodists and Presbyterians are in the same boat, per their national governing organizations. I don't know about signs at individual churches.
I have not heard anything from PCA or OPC flavors of Presbyterianism. My church (PCA) is friendly to concealed carry. I sent my pastor a long message explaining the changes in the law before Jan 1. So far they are not posting 30.07, but I wouod expect that they would ask open carriers to cover up.

After further review, it appears there are a number of different versions of Presbyterian, the views of which on these and other questions are decidedly different. The Methodists seem to be more monolithic.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:43 pm**

Thanks Annoyed Man, you're a great guy. I think all us believers are in this together; we love God and country, and protect our families, and each other. I will let you all know what happens in the coming days/ weeks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:52 pm**

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c2a5.htm
Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people's rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people's safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:07 am**

I have a close friend who is a baptist deacon. We talk compatible religion. While we believe the same base Christianity the are a lot of theological differences too. The 7 sacraments because by only one. Fundamentalists baptists theology adherence to a literal 6000 year old Genesis is not adhered to by Catholics. For example it is as a priest who introduced the Big Bang theory http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/en ... p27bi.html

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:38 am**

Tracker wrote:I have a close friend who is a baptist deacon. We talk compatible religion. While we believe the same base Christianity the are a lot of theological differences too. The 7 sacraments because by only one. Fundamentalists baptists theology adherence to a literal 6000 year old Genesis is not adhered to by Catholics. For example it is as a priest who introduced the Big Bang theory http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/en ... p27bi.html

This thread is about Catholic Churches posting 30.06 and 30.07, not Catholic vs other faith's beliefs or history.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:09 am**

Tracker wrote:I have a close friend who is a baptist deacon. We talk compatible religion. While we believe the same base Christianity the are a lot of theological differences too. The 7 sacraments because by only one. Fundamentalists baptists theology adherence to a literal 6000 year old Genesis is not adhered to by Catholics. For example it is as a priest who introduced the Big Bang theory http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/en ... p27bi.html

Tracker I am an Independent Baptist . We worship the same GOD .
I attended A Southern Baptist Church for 42 years , accepted and dedicated myself the LORD in 1959 at the age of 7 .
Memory .
I was about 10 years old , worship service had ended and was waiting for mom (seemed like the grownups could talk forever back then when you wanted to get home and do 'stuff' ) . As I stood in the hall a couple of old men were talking bad about the Catholic church down the street , none of it good . Got me kind of concerned about Catholics .
Mom finally showed up and we started heading for the old Kaiser where Dad and my sister were ready to go .While we were walking I asked mom if Catholics were bad people , she didn't respond immediately . When we got near the car she said ; Catholics are not bad , they worship the Lord differently is all . I still remember .
In The waiting room where I work I keep a King James and Catholic bible on a desk in the waiting room to encourage the reading of GOD's word . We are all the same , just different .

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:41 am**

Don't get defensive. My posting was for the other Catholics. It a factual statement about competitive religions/beliefs. The Catholic Church doesn't do a great job in teaching this stuff, especially in CCD. I know cradle Catholics who left and joined the baptists church who thought the church believed in a literal Genises. It doesn't page down to Fundamentalism https://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM. When it come to biblical interpretation the church has never taken everything literal. We do however take the eucharist literally. My baptist deacon friend and I don't argue about religion. We talk about the difference.

So while we Christians can worship and pray together the mass is much more than that to Catholics. We see Leaving as much more than finding some place else to worship.

Btw I posted a quote from CC of the church on self defense. I bring that to any talk with a priest or bishop. That said but if you go to a small church and the priest is indifferent he wouldn't file charges anyway. It would be the fist time a priest ignored a buroctstic rule from the diocese

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:09 am**

Tracker wrote:Don't get defensive. My posting was for the other Catholics. It a factual statement about competitive religions/beliefs. The Catholic Church doesn't do a great job in teaching this stuff, especially in CCD. I know cradle Catholics who left and joined the baptists church who thought the church believed in a literal Genises. It doesn't page down to Fundamentalism https://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM. When it come to biblical interpretation the church has never taken everything literal. We do however take the eucharist literally. My baptist deacon friend and I don't argue about religion. We talk about the difference.

So while we Christians can worship and pray together the mass is much more than that to Catholics. We see Leaving as much more than finding some place else to worship.

Btw I posted a quote from CC of the church on self defense. I bring that to any talk with a priest or bishop. That said but if you go to a small church and the priest is indifferent he wouldn't file charges anyway. It would be the fist time a priest ignored a buroctstic rule from the diocese

Tracker I'm afraid you misinterpreted the meaning of my post . I am not being defensive at all . Not a problem .

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:59 am**

chuck j wrote:
Tracker wrote:Don't get defensive. My posting was for the other Catholics. It a factual statement about competitive religions/beliefs. The Catholic Church doesn't do a great job in teaching this stuff, especially in CCD. I know cradle Catholics who left and joined the baptists church who thought the church believed in a literal Genises. It doesn't page down to Fundamentalism https://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM. When it come to biblical interpretation the church has never taken everything literal. We do however take the eucharist literally. My baptist deacon friend and I don't argue about religion. We talk about the difference.

So while we Christians can worship and pray together the mass is much more than that to Catholics. We see Leaving as much more than finding some place else to worship.

Btw I posted a quote from CC of the church on self defense. I bring that to any talk with a priest or bishop. That said but if you go to a small church and the priest is indifferent he wouldn't file charges anyway. It would be the fist time a priest ignored a buroctstic rule from the diocese

Tracker I'm afraid you misinterpreted the meaning of my post . I am not being defensive at all . Not a problem .

that's what I get for typing from a phone auto check "comparative religion" not "competitive...."

I respect others beliefs, Chuck. I don't see the point in debating which religion is correct. For example, I once sat down with a couple of friends. One was cradle Baptist and the other a cradle Catholic who late in life converted to the Baptist religion. They asked me a question and I mention human evolution. The CB asked: "Now, _____, do you believe the anthropologist or do you believe in the bible?" I didn't answer and dropped it because he wanted to debate. The question assumes that Catholics and Fundamentalists have a common belief about the Bible and that a dichotomy must exist between science and the Bible... I must make a choice must be made. That isn't true for Catholics. For us there is no dichotomy

Well, at a later time I was sitting with my ex-catholic friend for coffee and he brought it up again. I didn't let it pass this time because he should've known better. I said: "Look, I'll give, C, a pass because he's been raise Baptist and doesn't understand these core belief differences but you having been a Catholic for most of your life you should know better. The reality was, even though he'd been Catholic for 50 years(?), he didn't know the Catholic church's theological teachings. That stuff doesn't get taught in the homily. It's supposed to be taught in religious ed but think the teachers are doing a very good job of it. Most Catholic don't even know the Church owns and operates an astronomical observatory at the Vatican and one in Arizona http://www.vaticanobservatory.va/conten ... na/en.html.

If the Fort Worth diocese takes a similar stance as Dallas, I may get some LTC friends and have a talk with our priest.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:00 am**

Tracker wrote:
chuck j wrote:
Tracker wrote:Don't get defensive. My posting was for the other Catholics. It a factual statement about competitive religions/beliefs. The Catholic Church doesn't do a great job in teaching this stuff, especially in CCD. I know cradle Catholics who left and joined the baptists church who thought the church believed in a literal Genises. It doesn't page down to Fundamentalism https://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM. When it come to biblical interpretation the church has never taken everything literal. We do however take the eucharist literally. My baptist deacon friend and I don't argue about religion. We talk about the difference.

So while we Christians can worship and pray together the mass is much more than that to Catholics. We see Leaving as much more than finding some place else to worship.

Btw I posted a quote from CC of the church on self defense. I bring that to any talk with a priest or bishop. That said but if you go to a small church and the priest is indifferent he wouldn't file charges anyway. It would be the fist time a priest ignored a buroctstic rule from the diocese

Tracker I'm afraid you misinterpreted the meaning of my post . I am not being defensive at all . Not a problem .
that's what I get for typing from a phone auto check "comparative religion" not "competitive...."

I respect others beliefs, Chuck. I don't see the point in debating which religion is correct. For example, I once sat down with a couple of friends. One was cradle Baptist (not the deacon friend) and the other a cradle Catholic who late in life converted to the Baptist religion. They asked me a question and I mention human evolution. The CB asked: "Now, _____, do you believe the anthropologist or do you believe in the bible?" I didn't answer and dropped it because he wanted to debate. The question assumes that Catholics and Fundamentalists have a common belief about the Bible and that a dichotomy must exist between science and the Bible... I must make a choice must be made. That isn't true for Catholics. For us there is no dichotomy

Well, at a later time I was sitting with my ex-catholic friend for coffee and he brought it up again. I didn't let it pass this time because he should've known better. I said: "Look, I'll give, C, a pass because he's been raise Baptist and doesn't understand these core belief differences but you having been a Catholic for most of your life you should know better. The reality was, even though he'd been Catholic for 50 years(?), he didn't know the Catholic church's theological teachings. That stuff doesn't get taught in the homily. It's supposed to be taught in religious ed but think the teachers are doing a very good job of it. Most Catholic don't even know the Church owns and operates an astronomical observatory at the Vatican and one in Arizona http://www.vaticanobservatory.va/conten ... na/en.html.

If the Fort Worth diocese takes a similar stance as Dallas, I may get some LTC friends and have a talk with our priest.

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