TexasCHLforum.com

Tracker wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM

This one is graphic...If OC discourages panhandlers from closing the distance then all the better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7auscbtCqo

wow...now after watching that, makes me rethink that, NOT carrying a knife anymore, That will change today...

Also Makes me not want to write what I posted....

Wow......JUST wow....

I don't want bring a gun to a knife fight and LOSE....I have kids to go home to as well...

Very good vid Tracker....

SA_Steve wrote:OK, I've got it now.
Do not say you have a gun, don't show the gun, warning shots - no, never. But if in reasonable fear of death, shoot 'em (but only to 'stop' them, not to hurt them).

I'm too old and slow to deal with a bad guy, and more than one bad guy approaching quickly could easily do me in. I'll send the wife to gas up the car, she's loud enough to scare them off.

And here I thought my LTC was a license to protect myself and helpless citizens, assist cops as their trusted partner in crime control, educate the public and business owners, and prance around Walmart and report about it on the forums.

(easy guys, I'm in a joking mood this morning)

THAT WALMART COMMENT HAS ME IN STITCHES !!!!!!

BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE JOKING, BUT IT HAS A LITTLE TRUTH TO IT

AFTER I THOUGHT ABOUT ALL THE WALMART OC THREADS I HAVE READ

GOOD THING I SHOP AT TARGET


HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

HE SAID PRANCE, I JUST PICTURED A GUY SKIPPING AROUND WALMART OPEN CARRYING.....

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

mikebass78 wrote:Hmmm..Pretty much sounds like brandishing and intimidating to me...

Might as well do the same thing to girl scouts in front of every kroger, target or wherever, they seem more pushy than a beggar...

But I will say that hand over open carried weapon, like Officers do, would be fine, they aren't threatening anyone,just protecting their firearm in a crowded QT

But a good question was, what happened if the guy didn't stop coming? Shoot first ask questions later?

I don't see the rational comparison using the girl scouts.

If he didn't stop coming? Depends. Does he appear physically fit or frail? And most important....can I see his hands and is he trying to conceal something in them. I want to be able to see his fingers; no possible concealed-knife grip.

mikebass78 wrote:You are kidding , right?

not at all[/quote]

Are you a Texas CHL/LTC holder?

Tracker wrote:

mikebass78 wrote:Hmmm..Pretty much sounds like brandishing and intimidating to me...

Might as well do the same thing to girl scouts in front of every kroger, target or wherever, they seem more pushy than a beggar...

But I will say that hand over open carried weapon, like Officers do, would be fine, they aren't threatening anyone,just protecting their firearm in a crowded QT

But a good question was, what happened if the guy didn't stop coming? Shoot first ask questions later?

I don't see the rational comparison using the girl scouts.

If he didn't stop coming? Depends. Does he appear physically fit or frail? And most important....can I see his hands and is he trying to conceal something in them. I want to be able to see his fingers; no possible concealed-knife grip.

WOW...the Girl Scout comment, was more of a pushy car salesman reference, and to show that beggars, girl scouts, the guys on bikes that come to my subdivision on bikes ( mormons I think )...can be dismissed with a Simple NO, or I can't help you...

NO need to draw UNLESS you feel threatened...Brandishing/Flashing isn't part of it

Like i said, I still think he would have got cited for brandishing, had an officer seen the incident or anyone else( citizen, store owner or anyone else) made a complaint.

parabelum wrote:

mikebass78 wrote:You are kidding , right?

not at all

Are you a Texas CHL/LTC holder?[/quote]

Why?

Aren't all members here?

Or at least waiting it to come in the mail...

mikebass78 wrote:

parabelum wrote:

mikebass78 wrote:You are kidding , right?

not at all

Are you a Texas CHL/LTC holder?

Why?

Aren't all members here?

Or at least waiting it to come in the mail...[/quote]

What would you, as CHL holder, do in a similar situation?
As you know I'm sure from Tueller scenario etc., an agressor seeking to kill you can close quite a distance rather quickly on you.
Losing even a second can be a detriment to you either going home in one piece, or your family getting a call to ID you at the morgue.
OP simply had his hand on the weapon, presumably to ascert a boundary and position himself in a manner that is more conducive to survival, should the agressor choose to escalate.
So again, how would you handle a similar situation, where an unknown person begins to converge upon you after you had already given a verbal demand to be left alone?

mikebass78 wrote:

Tracker wrote:

mikebass78 wrote:Hmmm..Pretty much sounds like brandishing and intimidating to me...

Might as well do the same thing to girl scouts in front of every kroger, target or wherever, they seem more pushy than a beggar...

But I will say that hand over open carried weapon, like Officers do, would be fine, they aren't threatening anyone,just protecting their firearm in a crowded QT

But a good question was, what happened if the guy didn't stop coming? Shoot first ask questions later?

I don't see the rational comparison using the girl scouts.

If he didn't stop coming? Depends. Does he appear physically fit or frail? And most important....can I see his hands and is he trying to conceal something in them. I want to be able to see his fingers; no possible concealed-knife grip.

WOW...the Girl Scout comment, was more of a pushy car salesman reference, and to show that beggars, girl scouts, the guys on bikes that come to my subdivision on bikes ( mormons I think )...can be dismissed with a Simple NO, or I can't help you...

NO need to draw UNLESS you feel threatened...Brandishing/Flashing isn't part of it

Like i said, I still think he would have got cited for brandishing, had an officer seen the incident or anyone else( citizen, store owner or anyone else) made a complaint.

The word "brandish" is NOT in the Texas Penal Code in regards to handguns. It is either "displayed in a manner calculated to alarm" or it is not. If you lived somewhere before that had that word in the law, that was there, this is here. And, FYI, Texas CHL/LTC holders have the lowest incidence of criminal activity of any group in the state, even (slightly) lower than law enforcement when those folks are taken as a whole. So whatever you may think about those that hold CHL/LTC in this state, it is not born out by the facts.

mikebass78 wrote:WOW...the Girl Scout comment, was more of a pushy car salesman reference, and to show that beggars, girl scouts, the guys on bikes that come to my subdivision on bikes ( mormons I think )...can be dismissed with a Simple NO, or I can't help you...

NO need to draw UNLESS you feel threatened...Brandishing/Flashing isn't part of it

Like i said, I still think he would have got cited for brandishing, had an officer seen the incident or anyone else( citizen, store owner or anyone else) made a complaint.

Here is something a "simple no" or a "I can't help you" got these people.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/P ... 79281.html

The victim passed the suspect as he exited the 7-Eleven. The suspect asked the victim for some money and when the man didn’t give him any the suspect stabbed him in the back with a knife.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/ar ... 767293.php

Lt. Diedrich Hohn said the woman was walking with her 4-year-old child near the Interstate-95 overpass when she was approached by a black male, who asked her for money.
The woman replied that she did not have any money and kept walking. A second or two later, she felt a jabbing pain on the right side of her stomach, and hurried back to her apartment, seconds away from where she was assaulted.

How about this guy who gave money?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/12cb41ab ... quote]GLEN BURNIE, Md. (AP) — Anne Arundel County Police say a panhandler stabbed a man in the head after the victim gave him some money.[/quote]
How about this? Not nowhere nearly as violent but surely not anything I've seen girl scouts do.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72137

Javier730 wrote:Heres something that happened to me about 2 years ago. I stopped (with my son who was 4 at the time) at a Valero to fuel up and while walking in to pay, a guy stop in front of me to ask me for a few bucks for gas. I said "no man sorry" and walked around him. He then said "you dont have to be rude", I know I should of kept walking but I turned my head and said, "I wasnt being rude", and kept walking. He then started yelling using profanity and was saying he was going to beat me. I went inside and while standing in line I noticed he was sitting in his vehicle and there was a woman in the passenger and two other males in the backseat. I payed for my fuel and as I headed for the door I noticed he and his two buddies jumped out of the vehicle. I had no chl at the time and only had a kershaw leek with me. I could not risk getting into any confrontation especially with my son with me so I had to de-escalate the situation quickly. I walked towards my vehicle and they walked towards me. The main guy was raising his pants up and squaring off as if we were going to get in a street fight. I reached into my pocket and pulled out about $3 and held my hand out which he quickly grabbed. They then walked back to there truck and left. I felt like I was robbed. Thats what made me start looking into getting my chl.

By placing his hand on gun the OP was not intimidating anyone. Doing this he verified the gun was securely in place. If he removed it then that could be perceived as intimidating. If a situation is escalating and someone is putting a person or their family in jeopardy then showing the handgun in this manner in order to avoid having to judiciously place some lead in their center of mass is a better option IMO

EVERYTHING IMO

OK, the OP...."switched" from CC to OC...in a manner to cause panic.
Having his hand on his weapon was never the issue..
Read his response, the 2nd perp FLED,or in other words (panicked)

Secondly...Idc if brandish is in the Penal Code or not...you get point ,let's not nit pick...

Me being in the situation, what would I do?

Depends, on the entire situation...

Time of day?
Do they look threatening?
How fast are they approaching?
Do they look like they are on drugs?

Well as far as how close would I let them get?

I guess I've just never had your luck, my NO's and Can't help you's have always been more than enough...

Common sense, and awareness, is all I can suggest ( you said you saw them, why not just go to the next fill station?)
You know when your'e in danger, most people do.

I will just say this and I'm done...

IMO

Switching FROM CC to OC in the middle of a confrontation, definitely would be seen as aggressive or "cause panic"

ending, yes people are shady and crooked and untrustworthy, don't or do your best to NOT put yourself in those situations...

If that meant going to the next gas station, so be it...

mikebass78 wrote:EVERYTHING IMO

OK, the OP...."switched" from CC to OC...in a manner to cause panic.
Having his hand on his weapon was never the issue..
Read his response, the 2nd perp FLED,or in other words (panicked)

Secondly...Idc if brandish is in the Penal Code or not...you get point ,let's not nit pick...

Me being in the situation, what would I do?

Depends, on the entire situation...

Time of day?
Do they look threatening?
How fast are they approaching?
Do they look like they are on drugs?

Well as far as how close would I let them get?

I guess I've just never had your luck, my NO's and Can't help you's have always been more than enough...

Common sense, and awareness, is all I can suggest ( you said you saw them, why not just go to the next fill station?)
You know when your'e in danger, most people do.

I will just say this and I'm done...

IMO

Switching FROM CC to OC in the middle of a confrontation, definitely would be seen as aggressive or "cause panic"

ending, yes people are shady and crooked and untrustworthy, don't or do your best to NOT put yourself in those situations...

If that meant going to the next gas station, so be it...

Your life, your choice. His life, his choice.

suthdj wrote:

mikebass78 wrote:EVERYTHING IMO

OK, the OP...."switched" from CC to OC...in a manner to cause panic.
Having his hand on his weapon was never the issue..
Read his response, the 2nd perp FLED,or in other words (panicked)

Your life, your choice. His life, his choice.

Imagine that a BG panicked and FLED when he saw that the GG had a gun.

mikebass78 wrote:EVERYTHING IMO

OK, the OP...."switched" from CC to OC...in a manner to cause panic.
Having his hand on his weapon was never the issue..
Read his response, the 2nd perp FLED,or in other words (panicked)

Secondly...Idc if brandish is in the Penal Code or not...you get point ,let's not nit pick...

Me being in the situation, what would I do?

Depends, on the entire situation...

Time of day?
Do they look threatening?
How fast are they approaching?
Do they look like they are on drugs?

Well as far as how close would I let them get?

I guess I've just never had your luck, my NO's and Can't help you's have always been more than enough...

Common sense, and awareness, is all I can suggest ( you said you saw them, why not just go to the next fill station?)
You know when your'e in danger, most people do.

I will just say this and I'm done...

IMO

Switching FROM CC to OC in the middle of a confrontation, definitely would be seen as aggressive or "cause panic"

ending, yes people are shady and crooked and untrustworthy, don't or do your best to NOT put yourself in those situations...

If that meant going to the next gas station, so be it...

Ok, we just have a different opinion on this, and that's fine. For your own sake I do hope that you take some things from here to heart and rethink your stance on this.

As stated, your life/your choice.

Maybe he just uncovered and put his hand on his gun to improve his readiness and to warn the bum. Maybe he did it to create the apprehension he would use deadly force of justified. None of which constitutes "brandishing".

Now, if he actually pulled his gun and pointed it at the bum, that would be subject to more scrutiny and a higher standard of justification.