TexasCHLforum.com

KD5NRH wrote:

llwatson wrote:A person must lose about 20% of their blood volume to lose conciousness from blood loss alone.

For an average size man (about 180 lbs) with an arterial wound, this takes about 12 seconds.

This appears to assume a truly open artery; i.e. fully severed and exposed with no resistance to the flow of blood out of the body. IIRC, Applegate's numbers accounted for the most likely wound types in a knife fight; slashes deep enough to hit lesser protected arteries like the brachial/radial/ulnar, and stabs into more buried ones like the subclavian. Slashes have a nasty tendency to leave a wide-open exit path, while stabs leave a relatively small hole for the blood to get out, increasing the time-to-incapacitation even if the artery is actually severed.

Either way, it doesn't sound like fun, so I'm not volunteering to demo any of it.

OTOH, I recall someone telling about demonstrating what can happen in three minutes to a class at the range. I was thinking earlier tonight that a "what could you do in three minutes" video series would be an interesting idea: several three minute videos showing how many "A" (or -0 for the IDPA folks) hits you can get at 10 yards, or how much knife work, or even how many miles at the local racetrack various people can manage. Some folks don't think it's a long time to wait until they see it in terms of how many times you can be shot, or how many miles away from the scene the perp can take your family member while the police are getting there.

Any volunteers? I'd love to throw a couple dozen of those videos on a DVD, and it seems like it could be good publicity for CHL, especially with a few minutes of EMS folks explaining how critical each minute can be and/or combat veterans describing what three minutes in a real firefight is like.

I posted concerning this... about a year ago.

I start some training sessions with a demonstration of why it is a good idea to be prepared to defend yourself.

About 10 years ago....I had spoken with the Chief of Police at the department here in Nacogdoches, and also the C of P from the University. I asked them both what they thought good response times would be to high priority calls.

Both indicated that 1-3 minutes would be excellent depending upon location of responding units, but that 3-5 would be more the norm. Both were quick to add caveats and conditions...and cautioned that "response time" only meant an officer "on the scene". It didn't mean anything was being done (makes sense).

Anyway, I have an egg timer (a small sand filled hour glass) that has three vials. There are 1-3-5 minute vials. I use these to represent 1-3-5 minute response times.

I have everyone gather by the equipment table, I turn the timer over, then take a rubber knife and without warning deliver potentially fatal cuts/stabs to 3-4 of the participants.

I then WALK 15-20 yards downrange where I have my pistol laying....I pick it up and leisurely shoot 3 pepper poppers. I holster the weapon, WALK back up to the crowd. I open a can of soda, drink it (albeit fairly quickly), point to the timer and ask "Are the cops here yet"?

Before they can answer I walk about 10 yards back downrange and engage two steel humanoid targets with two shots each, walk back up and again point to the timer. Generally, I'll still have 20 or more seconds left on the 3 minute vial.

Its an eye opener.

Three minutes would seem like eternity if you were "waiting" for someone to save you from a determined attack.

Even a 1 minute rendition of this would be convincing.

I was hoping you would post this again.

longtooth wrote:I was hoping you would post this again.

I'm hoping he can get someone to video this next time.....



Would be a real eye-opener for a lot of folks.

flintknapper wrote: Three minutes would seem like eternity if you were "waiting" for someone to save you from a determined attack.

Even a 1 minute rendition of this would be convincing.

Amen to that. Sounds like a good demo for the CHL forum day.

That is a great way to show others what can happen when no one is around to "stop" the BG. Thank you for posting that. That would make a great demo for the forum day.

flintknapper wrote: Its an eye opener.

Three minutes would seem like eternity if you were "waiting" for someone to save you from a determined attack.

Even a 1 minute rendition of this would be convincing.

man, you need to video tape this and upload it on youtube. I think it would open quite a few eyes.

I would be happy to assist flint in this endeavor.

Yeah, "dangerous places"... like, say, Wal Mart at 2:00 on a Sunday afternoon?

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/441437.html

Bystander Killed in Wal-Mart Shooting
Location: North Little Rock
Posted: July 22, 2007 5:01 PM EST
URL: http://www.katv.com/news/stories//441437.html

North Little Rock - North Little Rock Police continue to search for a suspect who allegedly killed a man in the parking lot of a North Little Rock Wal-Mart.

It’s a crime police call overwhelming--an innocent bystander shot to death by a suspect who had just stolen a woman’s purse.

Witnesses say the victim was walking into Wal-Mart with his family around 2:00p.m. Sunday, when he was shot in the parking lot.

The incident leaves many people asking, "Why?"

(Tyler Jones, Called 911) "They were just going to Wal-Mart, a family together, and it resulted in this. It doesn’t make sense."

Police say the suspect had just stolen a woman’s purse in the Wal-Mart parking lot, when he turned around and fired his gun at 40-year-old Dean Worden of Jacksonville.

Worden died at the scene. His wife and 14-year-old son were also walking into the store.

By many accounts, Worden was simply an innocent bystander, who had little or no exchange with the suspect.

(Jones) "They were all walking together…and the man is just jumping – pow! Took two shots and then the man fell to the ground and he looked this way, held his neck and fell that way."

The murder left family and friends grieving, and a police department searching.

(Sgt. Terry Kuykendall, NLR Police) "It’s so horrific. It’s bad for the community. We want to make sure we protect all the information that we need. So when we make this arrest we can get a conviction out of this."

Police did locate the suspect’s abandoned silver Chrysler 300 around 5:30 p.m. Sunday. Now they just want to find the suspect.

(Kuykendall) "I just want to ask the community to be patient and to allow our detectives to do their jobs."

The woman whose purse was taken did sustain some injuries, but she is said to be okay.


http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/441591.html

Police Arrest Teen in NLR Wal-Mart Slaying
Location: North Little Rock
Posted: July 23, 2007 1:14 PM EST
URL: http://www.katv.com/news/stories//441591.html

North Little Rock (AP) - North Little Rock police have made an arrest in the slaying of a Jacksonville man during a purse snatching at a Wal-Mart store.

Police say that early Monday, 17-year-old Joshua Leallen Loften was arrested for capital murder.

Police say that 40-year-old Dean Worden of Jacksonville was killed in the shooting on the busy parking lot Sunday afternoon.

The shooting occurred when a robber was trying to steal a woman's purse. Worden was not with the woman whose purse was being stolen, but was shot during the altercation.

The shooter fled, but police found the getaway car a short time later and made the arrest Monday morning.

get a rope...

Keeping with the Wal-Mart motif.....

This from an earlier-mentioned email to our friend/colleague:

"Robbery at Lubbock Wal-Mart Prompts Warning from Police"

http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S= ... v=UwsXUvKb

Lubbock Police say always be aware of your surroundings, this after a robbery at a local Wal-Mart.
<snip>
Officers say the suspect approached a woman from behind, as she was getting into her vehicle. He held a switch blade knife to her throat and demanded her keys. The woman was unharmed but the suspect got away.


note1: it's a good thing he was an honorable thief, and let her live. hopefully, if one ever gets the jump on you or i, they'll be so honorable. i'd prefer to not let it ever come to that, though......

note2: as gustav heinemann once said, disarmament requires trust. i'm just not yet prepared to trust someone who is prepared to hold a switch blade to my throat. are you?

note3: as a simple observation, i would remind you that switch-blade knives are already illegal, per the texas penal code, § 46.05. as opposed to so-called "illegal knives" which are generally illegal to carry in public, but *not* illegal to own or carry on your private property (e.g. in your home), switchblade knives actually fall into the category of "prohibited weapons," which are illegal to possess, manufacture, transport, repair, or sell (regardless of the public/private property distinction).

fm2 wrote:The badguy chooses the location, not the victim.

I disagree !
Location is a factor, opportunity also, but helpless "condition white" victims are the target.

LedJedi wrote:

flintknapper wrote: Its an eye opener.

Three minutes would seem like eternity if you were "waiting" for someone to save you from a determined attack.

Even a 1 minute rendition of this would be convincing.

man, you need to video tape this and upload it on youtube. I think it would open quite a few eyes.

Any update to this?

could happen anywhere, but with that being said, i dont carry mine everywhere I go. I'm a situational carrier, i keep one in my house and in the car. When i'm in a situation that I feel i'm more at risk, I do carry it.

Shame there are not any more current threads worth replying to.



OK, I will stop giving you a hard time now.

RJ

g31357 wrote:could happen anywhere, but with that being said, i dont carry mine everywhere I go. I'm a situational carrier, i keep one in my house and in the car. When i'm in a situation that I feel i'm more at risk, I do carry it.

...one way to be cured from that way of thinking, is to look at the person you love the most...and then say: "On what day is it too much trouble to carry so that I could save his/her life...or how would I live with myself if they went through a horrible experience or died because I was too ......to carry that time?" Not being mean-spirited...but "IfonlyIda" is the saddest song to sing...

...trouble never makes an appointment...be prepared...