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rotor wrote: The right to keep and bear arms means that the government can not do what the British did to our colonial population or what the Nazis did to the Jews in more recent times. The 2nd amendment is to protect you from government, not just the bad guy that breaks into your home. I think in this respect our country is unique. With Obama we are already seeing oppression. When you take your first breath you either buy Obamacare or pay a tax. No freedom of choice. To be alive means you are taxed or must buy a government decided insurance. Didn't see that in The Constitution.

Totally agree that such is the basis for the 2nd amendment.

I definitely don't trust the government, but I feel that it'd be naive of me to think that any amount of civilian firepower would have the capacity to stop a modern government. The Branch Davidians were reasonably well armed and they were only fighting non-military law enforcement. They lost.

Back in the colonial days, a government couldn't launch a drone strike from the other side of the world. The playing field was somewhat level and a well-armed militia could defeat a British force from across the sea. That's simply not true anymore.

There is simply no way that our forefathers could see 200+ years into the future. I'm glad we have 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't think it stops the trolls in congress. Besides, they generally want my money.. Killing the population isn't in their self-interest.

I have seen hesitation on the part of law enforcement to shut down civilians that were operating outside the law, but I think that's more about media coverage the bad press and resulting lawsuits than it is about being unable to find an APC to drive in and shoot people up.

Solaris wrote: Because I really like guns. I shoot almost every day.
If I was a promiscuous female abortion would probably be my single issue.

And I certainly can't argue with pragmatic. :-)

FYI, still airing live on C-SPAN2 is the the Senate filibuster initiated by Chris Murphy (D-Connecticut) and which 40 members of the Senate, all Democrats, have joined to demand stricter gun laws in the wake of the Orlando shooting. The filibuster is over 11 hours old, and will no doubt pass 12 hours.

Tune in if you feel like throwing objects at your television. Continuing tripe about "assault rifles" and "military weapons" and "weapons of war." None of them give a whit that an AR-15 is none of those things. Also continued statements that the public can easily go online and buy a firearm without a background check. Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin) is speaking now, and she may well be the most appalling yet.

I gotta turn this off. I don't have enough blood pressure medication for this.

The liberal politician mantra: Never let a tragedy go to waste when there is an agenda-advancing opportunity.

If Hillary takes the White House--even if we don't lose Senate or House seats--we will lose the Supreme Court and these twits will get their way. We can't let that happen.

cb1000rider wrote:

rotor wrote: The right to keep and bear arms means that the government can not do what the British did to our colonial population or what the Nazis did to the Jews in more recent times. The 2nd amendment is to protect you from government, not just the bad guy that breaks into your home. I think in this respect our country is unique. With Obama we are already seeing oppression. When you take your first breath you either buy Obamacare or pay a tax. No freedom of choice. To be alive means you are taxed or must buy a government decided insurance. Didn't see that in The Constitution.

Totally agree that such is the basis for the 2nd amendment.

I definitely don't trust the government, but I feel that it'd be naive of me to think that any amount of civilian firepower would have the capacity to stop a modern government. The Branch Davidians were reasonably well armed and they were only fighting non-military law enforcement. They lost.

Back in the colonial days, a government couldn't launch a drone strike from the other side of the world. The playing field was somewhat level and a well-armed militia could defeat a British force from across the sea. That's simply not true anymore.

There is simply no way that our forefathers could see 200+ years into the future. I'm glad we have 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't think it stops the trolls in congress. Besides, they generally want my money.. Killing the population isn't in their self-interest.

I have seen hesitation on the part of law enforcement to shut down civilians that were operating outside the law, but I think that's more about media coverage the bad press and resulting lawsuits than it is about being unable to find an APC to drive in and shoot people up.

Your question (although not to me) was "Of all these issues, why is the right to keep and bear arms the most important? I'm not criticizing that choice at all, I'm just wanting a different perspective on it."
Out of all of the issues you pondered the most important in my mind was the right to keep and bear arms. Social security and health insurance to me are not the most important thing. My relatives in Poland and Austria didn't think they would be placed in ovens but they were. Not me or mine.

There is no other choice, vote Trump or watch Hillary finish the dismantling of America.

cb1000rider wrote:

rotor wrote: The right to keep and bear arms means that the government can not do what the British did to our colonial population or what the Nazis did to the Jews in more recent times. The 2nd amendment is to protect you from government, not just the bad guy that breaks into your home. I think in this respect our country is unique. With Obama we are already seeing oppression. When you take your first breath you either buy Obamacare or pay a tax. No freedom of choice. To be alive means you are taxed or must buy a government decided insurance. Didn't see that in The Constitution.

Totally agree that such is the basis for the 2nd amendment.

I definitely don't trust the government, but I feel that it'd be naive of me to think that any amount of civilian firepower would have the capacity to stop a modern government. The Branch Davidians were reasonably well armed and they were only fighting non-military law enforcement. They lost.

Back in the colonial days, a government couldn't launch a drone strike from the other side of the world. The playing field was somewhat level and a well-armed militia could defeat a British force from across the sea. That's simply not true anymore.

There is simply no way that our forefathers could see 200+ years into the future. I'm glad we have 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't think it stops the trolls in congress. Besides, they generally want my money.. Killing the population isn't in their self-interest.

I have seen hesitation on the part of law enforcement to shut down civilians that were operating outside the law, but I think that's more about media coverage the bad press and resulting lawsuits than it is about being unable to find an APC to drive in and shoot people up.

I disagree, Two Words ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE!

I have always been for Trump. So, I am real pleased. I enjoy the way he speaks and how he thinks. I believe he is and was always the best choice for America.

Best choice, Trump by a long shot.

Any chance of winning ? NO

This election is about ONE issue. National Security.

What affects National Security? Gun Rights, Immigration, National Debt, Foreign Policy, Strength and support of our Military. All of these have suffered under Democratic leadership. I hope voters in this country wake up. Or the country we have and love will be permanently transformed into a socialized, progressive, ideological nightmare. Trump 2016!

cb1000rider wrote:

rotor wrote: The right to keep and bear arms means that the government can not do what the British did to our colonial population or what the Nazis did to the Jews in more recent times. The 2nd amendment is to protect you from government, not just the bad guy that breaks into your home. I think in this respect our country is unique. With Obama we are already seeing oppression. When you take your first breath you either buy Obamacare or pay a tax. No freedom of choice. To be alive means you are taxed or must buy a government decided insurance. Didn't see that in The Constitution.

Totally agree that such is the basis for the 2nd amendment.

I definitely don't trust the government, but I feel that it'd be naive of me to think that any amount of civilian firepower would have the capacity to stop a modern government. The Branch Davidians were reasonably well armed and they were only fighting non-military law enforcement. They lost.

Back in the colonial days, a government couldn't launch a drone strike from the other side of the world. The playing field was somewhat level and a well-armed militia could defeat a British force from across the sea. That's simply not true anymore.

There is simply no way that our forefathers could see 200+ years into the future. I'm glad we have 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't think it stops the trolls in congress. Besides, they generally want my money.. Killing the population isn't in their self-interest.

I have seen hesitation on the part of law enforcement to shut down civilians that were operating outside the law, but I think that's more about media coverage the bad press and resulting lawsuits than it is about being unable to find an APC to drive in and shoot people up.

They didn't need to see 200+ years in the future.

Foundational principles are timeless and they were only enumerating support for a foundational principle which is the right to protect one's self from the government that is supposed to be of the people and for the people. It also affirms the right to defend one's self from others that want to do harm. In an effort to ensure we can defend ourselves, they enumerated our right to keep and bear the tools to do so and this was not intended to be only muskets.

Again, principles are timeless. If we accept the founders only intended for us to be able to keep and bear muskets, all the rest of the principles of our founding will be subject to the period of time in which the Constitution and Bill of Rights were penned and subject to revision. I can assure you, we do not want to go there.

I continue to see comments that Trump can't win. How do we know that? Listening to a media that is controlled by the left is not the way. They are going to do everything that they can to paint Hillary as winning to try to get people sitting on the fence to vote for her (people that don't have the sense God gave a goose but want to vote for a winner or a meal ticket). If she does win, we may be moving to from the ballet box to the bullet box before her first term is over.

I also would not sell the "patriots" short if it comes to the bullet box. The Branch Davidian group lost because they were a small group that made a lot of mistakes and got out on a limb. If this becomes a battle for our country and our liberty, I don't think the results will be different.

Why is the Second Amendment THE most important issue? Because without the second amendment you become a slave to the State, you must bow down to their power because you have no means to resist. The Second Amendment protects our form of government from the socialists like hillary. Donald Trump is our only choice, there is no other, on the up side is he is pulling demographics that no other republican candidate has, he has put States that typically go demcrat in play, this will be a landslide for Trump. But wether or not that happens can you really vote for a socialist in good conscience? Knowing what she is, knowing what she wants and will do, knowing full well that she truly is a criminal can you really vote for her?

crazy2medic wrote:Why is the Second Amendment THE most important issue? Because without the second amendment you become a slave to the State, you must bow down to their power because you have no means to resist. The Second Amendment protects our form of government from the socialists like hillary. Donald Trump is our only choice, there is no other, on the up side is he is pulling demographics that no other republican candidate has, he has put States that typically go demcrat in play, this will be a landslide for Trump. But wether or not that happens can you really vote for a socialist in good conscience? Knowing what she is, knowing what she wants and will do, knowing full well that she truly is a criminal can you really vote for her?

I don't see him pulling in American Latino and women. Without those in his side there is no win.

He's not pulling in liberal women and latinos typically vote democrat anyway cause they want the free stuff, he is pulling in blue collar working class democrats because they want the manufactoring jobs brought back, hillary is losing ground everyday, by november I doubt she will get voted dogcatcher, the whole "he can't win" thing is liberal media smoke screen, they said that stuff about Reagan too!

My conscience and my guns won't let me vote for anything else!

cb1000rider wrote:

rotor wrote: The right to keep and bear arms means that the government can not do what the British did to our colonial population or what the Nazis did to the Jews in more recent times. The 2nd amendment is to protect you from government, not just the bad guy that breaks into your home. I think in this respect our country is unique. With Obama we are already seeing oppression. When you take your first breath you either buy Obamacare or pay a tax. No freedom of choice. To be alive means you are taxed or must buy a government decided insurance. Didn't see that in The Constitution.

Totally agree that such is the basis for the 2nd amendment.

I definitely don't trust the government, but I feel that it'd be naive of me to think that any amount of civilian firepower would have the capacity to stop a modern government. The Branch Davidians were reasonably well armed and they were only fighting non-military law enforcement. They lost.

Back in the colonial days, a government couldn't launch a drone strike from the other side of the world. The playing field was somewhat level and a well-armed militia could defeat a British force from across the sea. That's simply not true anymore.

There is simply no way that our forefathers could see 200+ years into the future. I'm glad we have 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't think it stops the trolls in congress. Besides, they generally want my money.. Killing the population isn't in their self-interest.

I have seen hesitation on the part of law enforcement to shut down civilians that were operating outside the law, but I think that's more about media coverage the bad press and resulting lawsuits than it is about being unable to find an APC to drive in and shoot people up.

Civilian firepower does not have to outmatch the military in order for an armed citizenry to put a limit on tyranny. And armed citizenry makes it more expensive for the government to come arrest you and whisk you away to an internment camp. That is what happened to countless victims of Soviet, etc. oppression -- they were quietly arrested at midnight by a couple of secret police. You could do that in Stalin's Georgia, but you can't do that in Jimmy Carter's Georgia. You'd have to send a SWAT team, and it would make the news, and it would be both financially and politically expensive.