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koine2002 wrote:

parabelum wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

parabelum wrote:

koine2002 wrote:The Turkish military is the reason that Turkey is not a radical Islamic country.

Bingo.

They (Turkish Military) see Erdogan as moving more towards the support of radical Islamic groups byway of direct and indirect support. Military does not want Islamization of Turkey. That's what we are seeing in my opinion.

The coup will fail. US government declared support for the Turkish government (as per CNN). Turkey is still a secular government. It would only make the whole regional unstable, if the there is no elected government in power for long period

While it is true that Turkey is not yet a radicalized Country, I have heard from close family members who travel from Sarajevo Bosnia to Istanbul from time to time that Turkey has gotten a lot more oppressive since Erdogan. Locals complain that Erdogan has been packing Military and Judicial offices with Islamic radicals/sympathizers (sound familiar .... ).
Also, the press and freedoms have been oppressed heavily under Erdogan. Fact that "our government" supports Erdogan tells me everything I need to know.

If the coup fails, expect more purges and higher influx of Islamic radicals.

Just my opinion of course.

I don't think Erdogan is an Islamist. I think he's only an Islamist if it furthers his goals. The man reminds me of a megalomaniac who responds to criticism with brute force. He forcibly silences internal opposition. He tries to get foreign countries to arrest and extradite their own citizens who criticize him in print and on the web. He files libel lawsuits when that fails.

Well He has toned it down some since being "Banned for life" from political office in '98... you see how that turned out.

"The speech Erdogan gave that led to his downfall and his prison sentence was delivered in 1997 in the town of Siirt, in Turkey's troubled Southeast.

The public prosecutor charged Erdogan with "inciting hatred based on religious differences" at a political rally in Siirt. During his speech, Erdogan read a poem by nationalist ideologist Ziya Gokalp, in which he said:

"Our minarets are our bayonets, Our domes are our helmets, Our mosques are our barracks. We will put a final end to ethnic segregation. No one can ever intimidate us.

"If the skies and the ground were to open against us. If floods and volcanoes were to burst, We will not turn from our mission. My reference is Islam. If I am not able to speak of this, What is the use of living?"
Banned for life
Under the court ruling, Erdogan will be banned from public life forever and will not be able to take part in politics."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdoga ... 1999-03-27

Daisy Cutter wrote:What I'm wondering is, how is it possible that BO can be blindsided by this. Turkey is a NATO ally, has allied air base there, is crawling with CIA and other intel/ mil operatives, and NSA is vacuuming up all traffic in the area. For them to roll tanks and fly aircraft on short notice there must have been a lot of chatter.

Do you realize you're asking this about a president who never once met with his Defense Intelligence Chief?

Daisy Cutter.... You ask how POTUS got caught asleep at the switch?

I wonder if this guy didn't start it.

XnTx wrote:The Turkish military is more secular than Erdogan. Erdogan is to0 close to the Islamic Brotherhood and ISIS. Turkey is a buffer and used to be a stabilizing influence in the region. If the military can succeed, it would be a good thing. If they fail, Turkey will become a full-blown sharia state. I hope our leaders are saying one thing and supporting the other.

No, Turks are not that naive. They know that their future is with NATO and Europe. They are anti-terrorists and pro democracy. Who bombed Istanbul, just few weeks ago, ISIS, no? Turks are victim of terrorism as the rest of Middle East, Europe, US and the whole world.

WOW took a few days and the whole world changed.
Prayers with the turkish people. I really enjoyed my time in Instanbul.
for a muslim nation, they sure are western in many regards

Beiruty wrote: No, Turks are not that naive. They know that their future is with NATA and Europe. They are anti-terrorists and pro democracy. Who bombed Istanbul, just few weeks ago, ISIS, no? Turks are victim of terrorism as the rest of Middle East, Europe, US and the whole world.

Agree. If Erdogan is ousted his more fervent followers will quickly become radicalized, and this would be a very bad thing. But make no mistake Erdogan is pro-Islamic and it is fanning the cause of the military to coup. They want a secular leader who is vanilla, yet patriotic.

This is a good thing but our government will see it as bad.

I found this interesting and thought you may also.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6bf6b83e ... ead-turkey

RoyGBiv wrote:Good thing.

Think Egypt/Morsi

Seems I might have been quite wrong there.
If it turns out that a more Islamist faction was responsible for the coup attempt.

I'll refund all your money as soon as it's confirmed

Pawpaw wrote:

Daisy Cutter wrote:What I'm wondering is, how is it possible that BO can be blindsided by this. Turkey is a NATO ally, has allied air base there, is crawling with CIA and other intel/ mil operatives, and NSA is vacuuming up all traffic in the area. For them to roll tanks and fly aircraft on short notice there must have been a lot of chatter.

Do you realize you're asking this about a president who never once met with his Defense Intelligence Chief?

I just remembered the DOD ordered all US military dependents to leave Turkey back in March: http://www.militarytimes.com/story/mili ... /82377984/

Of course, just because our military was on the ball doesn't mean the POSTUS could be bothered with it.

Topbuilder wrote:

koine2002 wrote:

parabelum wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

parabelum wrote:

koine2002 wrote:The Turkish military is the reason that Turkey is not a radical Islamic country.

Bingo.

They (Turkish Military) see Erdogan as moving more towards the support of radical Islamic groups byway of direct and indirect support. Military does not want Islamization of Turkey. That's what we are seeing in my opinion.

The coup will fail. US government declared support for the Turkish government (as per CNN). Turkey is still a secular government. It would only make the whole regional unstable, if the there is no elected government in power for long period

While it is true that Turkey is not yet a radicalized Country, I have heard from close family members who travel from Sarajevo Bosnia to Istanbul from time to time that Turkey has gotten a lot more oppressive since Erdogan. Locals complain that Erdogan has been packing Military and Judicial offices with Islamic radicals/sympathizers (sound familiar .... ).
Also, the press and freedoms have been oppressed heavily under Erdogan. Fact that "our government" supports Erdogan tells me everything I need to know.

If the coup fails, expect more purges and higher influx of Islamic radicals.

Just my opinion of course.

I don't think Erdogan is an Islamist. I think he's only an Islamist if it furthers his goals. The man reminds me of a megalomaniac who responds to criticism with brute force. He forcibly silences internal opposition. He tries to get foreign countries to arrest and extradite their own citizens who criticize him in print and on the web. He files libel lawsuits when that fails.

Well He has toned it down some since being "Banned for life" from political office in '98... you see how that turned out.

"The speech Erdogan gave that led to his downfall and his prison sentence was delivered in 1997 in the town of Siirt, in Turkey's troubled Southeast.

The public prosecutor charged Erdogan with "inciting hatred based on religious differences" at a political rally in Siirt. During his speech, Erdogan read a poem by nationalist ideologist Ziya Gokalp, in which he said:

"Our minarets are our bayonets, Our domes are our helmets, Our mosques are our barracks. We will put a final end to ethnic segregation. No one can ever intimidate us.

"If the skies and the ground were to open against us. If floods and volcanoes were to burst, We will not turn from our mission. My reference is Islam. If I am not able to speak of this, What is the use of living?"
Banned for life
Under the court ruling, Erdogan will be banned from public life forever and will not be able to take part in politics."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/erdoga ... 1999-03-27

That is your 1stA, Period.

I spent some time in Istanbul a few years back, languishing in one of the palaces on the Bosphorous now serving as a hotel. There are some astonishing sights to be seen. The Bospherous used to be a significant waterway. Now its main function seems to be to separate Chaos from Bedlam.

My internet service was restricted. I could not log on to this site, nor on several others I frequent. I imagine my commercial correspondence was intercepted, to what purpose I can't imagine.

We had some real estate brokers as tenants in an office building who were Turkish. One of them had not fulfilled his military service requirement, so had to return for that for awhile. If he is an example of the military, God help them!

The WeaponsMan blog had some background info: http://weaponsman.com/?p=33457

It’s not known whether the officers who staged the coup were Gulenist (a moderate Islamist faction, compared to Erdogan’s more extreme AKP) or Kemalist (secularizers who oppose Erdogan’s Islamism and antidemocratic tendencies).

The most likely cause was a secularist reaction to the AKP, Erdogan’s party, floating (but withdrawing) an explicitly Islamist constitution this spring.

With the failure of the coup, de facto President-for-Life Erdogan has lost the last check on his power, the Kemalist military, which he has been undermining since being elected in 2003. As his time in power has grown, he has taken many actions to nullify any risk of a future election turning his AKP islamist party out, to increase the power of islamism over Turkish life, and to pack the military with AKP Islamists, Erdogan flunkies, and AKP nepots.

About the author:

About Hognose
Former Special Forces 11B2S, later 18B, weapons man. (Also served in intelligence and operations jobs in SF).

SF Intelligence is not infallible, but I'm willing to concede that Hognose has access to sources still extant within the SF community which, which combined with his own experience, probably gives him a fair amount of acumen here.

The soldiers who surrendered were publicly beaten, had their throats slit and then thrown off a bridge. I don't think there will be a return for Turkey