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Okay, in relation to the Open Carrying of Arms.

First let's start off with a little science. Each and every one of us are killers/predators in the animal kingdom. We have pinpointed movable pupils, bifurcated nostrils, ears on the sides of our heads, canine incisors with additional bicuspids, and extendable arms with opposable thumbs. In the animal kingdom this makes us killers at our most basic level. This means ALL OF US WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT are killers and murderers if given the select set of situations. I have thankfully never had to kill anyone. Would I kill someone without hesitation for violence upon my wife or daughter? Yes. So would you. Sympathetic versus parasympathetic kicks in and as predators we will fight and kill if necessary. Same thing with your average house cat. Docile and lovable until a mouse runs by. Then their DNA kicks in and they become killers to. Why? Cause they're predators just like us. The Bible supports this fact en mass.

Why does this matter for OC? Because as a predator if given the correct set of circumstances and the need to kill arises, then if I am standing in Wally World and you are in front of me at the check out line and I NEED A GUN to kill the person that just raked my daughter and by happenstance he is also at Wally World, then I am going to use whatever force is necessary to beat you into submission when you turn around away from me to get your bags into your cart because you are facing away from me. One swing from the small child's aluminum bat I found in the sporting goods department of that Wally World and then you're done for. After I take your gun and kill the rapist I'll gladly then either use it on you or myself. But either way you're done for. And you're the one that let me know you had the exact item I needed when Mr Rapist licked the wrong place to shop that day. And so did you.

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Okay, in relation to the Open Carrying of Arms.

First let's start off with a little science. Each and every one of us are killers/predators in the animal kingdom. We have pinpointed movable pupils, bifurcated nostrils, ears on the sides of our heads, canine incisors with additional bicuspids, and extendable arms with opposable thumbs. In the animal kingdom this makes us killers at our most basic level. This means ALL OF US WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT are killers and murderers if given the select set of situations. I have thankfully never had to kill anyone. Would I kill someone without hesitation for violence upon my wife or daughter? Yes. So would you. Sympathetic versus parasympathetic kicks in and as predators we will fight and kill if necessary. Same thing with your average house cat. Docile and lovable until a mouse runs by. Then their DNA kicks in and they become killers to. Why? Cause they're predators just like us. The Bible supports this fact en mass.

Why does this matter for OC? Because as a predator if given the correct set of circumstances and the need to kill arises, then if I am standing in Wally World and you are in front of me at the check out line and I NEED A GUN to kill the person that just raked my daughter and by happenstance he is also at Wally World, then I am going to use whatever force is necessary to beat you into submission when you turn around away from me to get your bags into your cart because you are facing away from me. One swing from the small child's aluminum bat I found in the sporting goods department of that Wally World and then you're done for. After I take your gun and kill the rapist I'll gladly then either use it on you or myself. But either way you're done for. And you're the one that let me know you had the exact item I needed when Mr Rapist licked the wrong place to shop that day. And so did you.

You raise some interesting points, but I think that with the scenario you paint, given the odds of anything like that happening, I still don't believe that if am OC, I am in any more danger of being targeted, for attack than someone CC. If this were a common occurrence, then LEOs would be constantly in the news for having been attacked, and having their guns taken away.
My experience as a LEO, and since have shown, that there are very few incidences of spontaneous or even pre-planned disarming of someone who is OC.
Has it happened? yes, there was an incident in a courthouse recently where a bailiff was disarmed and the BG shot him with his own gun. Again, a very rare occurrence.
If you choose to carry concealed, that's your prerogative, but, I don't think the odds are significantly slanted against those who choose to OC. JMHO

Actually, it is quite common. So common in fact that in Texas we even habe written a felony statute to address the topic. Disarming a peace officer is a felony in just about every jurisdiction I can think of and happens all the time.

Officer Robert Washington in Jackson in 1995. Disarmed. Kidnaped inside back seat of his own patrol car. Shot multiple times. Dead obviously. Why? Suspect never caught. But did they use is own weapon against him? YEP.

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:

We get it - you don't believe citizens should open carry. The horse is now pulverized.

On any given day there are literally tens of thousands of people in the United States that have felony warrants out for them. This means there is a significant chance the next time young into the mall someone is going to be walking by you or near you that is wanted for a felony. Some of them very violent felonies. This means as an OC carrier of arms you need to be aware that some of these folks don't exactly plan on going to the pokey Ina quiet and peaceful manner. So when they see you peon carrying of a gun they might thing you're the police. And that means you are the logical enemy of all things for this person. So keep that in mind when you take your gun out for all the world to see.

The equation for this is a drunk female in New Orkeans with lots of money cause she just went to the ATM machine on Bourbon Street. She now has $400 in her and and outs it in her purse. She is inebriated and all the criminals in New Orleans (there are LOTS!) now have seen her and what she has. Blame thing with you and your gun. You've now announced loudly that you'd like to be robbed. Come down to the precinct I worked in before retirement and I'll show you a few folks that don't give a rat about your gun rights or anything else. They'll just like to rob you and take your gun and then do your wife for fun after they take everything else. Thing I'm joking?!! Trust me. I ain't.

suthdj wrote:

rexmitchell wrote:It is a hippie, who cares?

Really, I would take it as a badge of honor.

This!

ETA: OCing while hoverboarding has to be the perfect combination for 2Aing in Austin.

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:On any given day there are literally tens of thousands of people in the United States that have felony warrants out for them. This means there is a significant chance the next time young into the mall someone is going to be walking by you or near you that is wanted for a felony. Some of them very violent felonies. This means as an OC carrier of arms you need to be aware that some of these folks don't exactly plan on going to the pokey Ina quiet and peaceful manner. So when they see you peon carrying of a gun they might thing you're the police. And that means you are the logical enemy of all things for this person. So keep that in mind when you take your gun out for all the world to see.

The equation for this is a drunk female in New Orkeans with lots of money cause she just went to the ATM machine on Bourbon Street. She now has $400 in her and and outs it in her purse. She is inebriated and all the criminals in New Orleans (there are LOTS!) now have seen her and what she has. Blame thing with you and your gun. You've now announced loudly that you'd like to be robbed. Come down to the precinct I worked in before retirement and I'll show you a few folks that don't give a rat about your gun rights or anything else. They'll just like to rob you and take your gun and then do your wife for fun after they take everything else. Thing I'm joking?!! Trust me. I ain't.

I think you are placing far too muh reliability on anecdotal evidence, when there is far more scientific evidence to back up the contrary opinion. However I don't open carry, obviously you don't, so there is no reason for me to continue. There is also no reason to bash it, it's a huge step in the direction of restoring our 2A rights.

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Agreed! I "open carried" in uniform every single day before I retired from the department and so did the rest of our officers on patrol. Didn't stop fights and shootings. So clearly open carry and the shaking of a weapon is no deterrent. Just ask Dallas PD of it deterred. Not being harsh! Just reality. Open carry deters nothing.

In fact ALL Secret Service agents conceal carry and they have to protect daily those protectees from people that want to shoot them.

So in that reality neither concealed nor open carry mean a darn thing. Criminals will try and get your gun or shoot you first no matter if you CC or OC. Period.

In order to keep criminals from killing us all, none of us should carry guns?

allisji wrote:

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Agreed! I "open carried" in uniform every single day before I retired from the department and so did the rest of our officers on patrol. Didn't stop fights and shootings. So clearly open carry and the shaking of a weapon is no deterrent. Just ask Dallas PD of it deterred. Not being harsh! Just reality. Open carry deters nothing.

In fact ALL Secret Service agents conceal carry and they have to protect daily those protectees from people that want to shoot them.

So in that reality neither concealed nor open carry mean a darn thing. Criminals will try and get your gun or shoot you first no matter if you CC or OC. Period.

In order to keep criminals from killing us all, none of us should carry guns?

US Secret Service uniformed agents ALWAYS open carry while on duty I just passed them yesterday on Pennsylvania Avenue near the White House. I've been in a taxi stopped by them before too (again near WH). Should they stop to avoid the fence jumpers grabbing their guns and trying to use them on the prez?

bblhd672 wrote:

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:

We get it - you don't believe citizens should open carry. The horse is now pulverized.

Nope, not yet... it's still being beaten as the posts keep-a-comin'

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Actually, it is quite common. So common in fact that in Texas we even habe written a felony statute to address the topic. Disarming a peace officer is a felony in just about every jurisdiction I can think of and happens all the time.

Officer Robert Washington in Jackson in 1995. Disarmed. Kidnaped inside back seat of his own patrol car. Shot multiple times. Dead obviously. Why? Suspect never caught. But did they use is own weapon against him? YEP.

You say it happens all the time then cite a situation from 21 years ago. That's not very convincing that it happens all the time.

If concealed carry was so much more effective than open carry, all the cops would conceal carry. I think it's six of one or a half a dozen of the other.

Ryan wrote:

bblhd672 wrote:

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:

We get it - you don't believe citizens should open carry. The horse is now pulverized.

Nope, not yet... it's still being beaten as the posts keep-a-comin'

You don't have to click the link.

mojo84 wrote:

Ryan wrote:

bblhd672 wrote:

TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:

We get it - you don't believe citizens should open carry. The horse is now pulverized.

Nope, not yet... it's still being beaten as the posts keep-a-comin'

You don't have to click the link.

Oh but I do... I'm addicted to this anti-OC thread.
Plus, I was just joking. I practice the "no-clicking-on-threads-I'm-tired-of" quite often. I'm not quite tired of this one yet.

ELB wrote:

suthdj wrote:

rexmitchell wrote:It is a hippie, who cares?

Really, I would take it as a badge of honor.

This!

ETA: OCing while hoverboarding has to be the perfect combination for 2Aing in Austin.

In fact, I hereby designate OCing while hoverboarding as "Austin Carry."

ELB wrote:

ELB wrote:

suthdj wrote:

rexmitchell wrote:It is a hippie, who cares?

Really, I would take it as a badge of honor.

This!

ETA: OCing while hoverboarding has to be the perfect combination for 2Aing in Austin.

In fact, I hereby designate OCing while hoverboarding as "Austin Carry."

Just keeping Austin weird.