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Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:18 pm
by bblhd672
lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?
An overreaching government gone off the rails and using tactics like planting evidence against "certain groups" in order to achieve the desired results.
You fill in the "certain groups" - like Tea Party members, gun owners, members of forums that don't agree with the government, minorities, races, religions...get the idea?
In Texas, right now, I'm not too worried about stop and frisk since I have an ID that indicates I'm a way above average law abiding citizen.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:19 pm
by Bitter Clinger
mr1337 wrote:allisji wrote:Hopefully all of the strong objections won't suppress any supporters from making their supporting arguments.
I would assume that the supporting arguments would all be based on what constitutes the idea of "reasonable suspicion".
For instance, just because an officer has a feeling that a person may have bad intentions doesn't mean that the officers suspicion is reasonable. But if the person appears to be a possibly match for a suspect in the area, then that changes the situation. Should the officer stop the man, frisk him, and ask for ID was he justified as having reasonable suspicion?
My wife tells a story about when she was in HS and riding in a car or a minivan with friends. The vehicle apparently matched the model/color description of a vehicle associated with a dangerous criminal. Apparently when they were stopped by the officers, they were all roughed up a little bit, thrown to the ground, frisked, ID'd, and ultimately released. Seems a little excessive, unless one of them inside the vehicle matched the description of the suspect. The only experiences that I've had with Law Enforcement other than about 4 traffic stops in 16 years of driving have been my waving at Police cruisers as they go by.
Reasonable Suspicion (RS) is pretty well defined in the court system, and it's exactly what it sounds like. The officer needs a
reason to
suspect the person is involved in criminal activity. It has to be more than just a hunch. "He looked like the kind of person who would smoke weed" is not Reasonable Suspicion but "I smelled the odor of marijuana" is Reasonable Suspicion, which is the legal standard for a detainment. Whereas "I saw a roach on the seat next to him" would be Probable Cause, which is the legal standard required for an arrest.
Rudolph Giuliani: Trump is right about 'stop and frisk...Stop and frisk is constitutional and the law of the land
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/09/ ... ogize.html
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:32 pm
by lildave40
SewTexas wrote:lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?
OMG you didn't really just say that, did you?
I'm can't even respond to this....I'm just going to sit back and let the guys loose
Okay Okay I take it back
ouch
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:37 pm
by Jusme
lildave40 wrote:SewTexas wrote:lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?
OMG you didn't really just say that, did you?
I'm can't even respond to this....I'm just going to sit back and let the guys loose
Okay Okay I take it back
ouch
Hey lildave40, you're fully entitled to your opinion, and there are several people, including a lot of LEOs who agree. The original intent may have been honorable, and when dealing with rampant crime, sometimes judges, and lawmakers feel like they have to do something. The problem is that this opinion, has been misused so many times, and has resulted in so many violations, that it needs to be, if not completely overturned, at least have the parameters, more well defined. JMHO
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:52 pm
by allisji
lildave40 wrote:SewTexas wrote:lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?
OMG you didn't really just say that, did you?
I'm can't even respond to this....I'm just going to sit back and let the guys loose
Okay Okay I take it back
ouch
I feel partly responsible for you current suffering. Sorry
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:43 pm
by JustSomeOldGuy
This all reminded me of
- several personal incidents from my youth
- that song "uneasy rider", which I hadn't remembered as being a Charlie Daniels song.......
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:17 pm
by SewTexas
lildave40 wrote:SewTexas wrote:lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?
OMG you didn't really just say that, did you?
I'm can't even respond to this....I'm just going to sit back and let the guys loose
Okay Okay I take it back
ouch
Good job guys....I didn't even have to lift a finger
Now, I will say, I'm actually not 100% against S&F, but an officer needs to have a good reasonable suspicion.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:33 pm
by rocinante
The Wall wrote:Well, from what I hear the SCOTUS already said it's constitutional. So if you believe in them I guess it is. If you open carry there would be no reason to be frisked.
Besides I seriously doubt the Feds can force the states to do this anyway. Not likely to happen in Texas. Now in Chicago perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad idea after declaring martial law. In cities like that they need to do something drastic. Getting rid of the Democratic bureaucrats would be a good start.
NYC mostly ended the stop and frisk program after it was ruled unconstitutional by a US district court.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/26/clinton-trump-debate
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:36 pm
by rocinante
If police were allowed to stop and frisk on the flimsiest causes (which was the case in NYC before they stopped it), I can easily imagine things like OC, printing, etc would eventually become "reasonable" cause for a stop, even when legal. Maybe even being known to have a LTC, e.g. when entering a prohibited location.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:52 pm
by Liberty
The problem with reasonable suspicion is all a cop needs to say is, "I smell me some weed boy", I never smoked and never let anyone do it in my car, but I had this stunt pulled on me as a kid a couple of times as a kid, many years ago, but still ...
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:58 pm
by Mxrdad
I like it. I think I'll stop and frisk the wife later tonight when it gets quiet! Give her a good pat down. LOL. This sie is one of the most dignified respectful Forusm I have ever seen. You guys can disagree without bashing, name calling disrespect etc. Awesome.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:04 pm
by The Wall
rocinante wrote:The Wall wrote:Well, from what I hear the SCOTUS already said it's constitutional. So if you believe in them I guess it is. If you open carry there would be no reason to be frisked.
Besides I seriously doubt the Feds can force the states to do this anyway. Not likely to happen in Texas. Now in Chicago perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad idea after declaring martial law. In cities like that they need to do something drastic. Getting rid of the Democratic bureaucrats would be a good start.
NYC mostly ended the stop and frisk program after it was ruled unconstitutional by a US district court.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/26/clinton-trump-debate
Yes, and I heard the SCOTUS overturned that court and the mayor of NYC didn't want to start it up again. I also heard there are other cities that do it.
You do the research because I really don't care.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:11 pm
by Surgeon
Personally I dislike the concept or S&F. And you can add to that plea bargaining and immunity from prosecution and parol boards. And while you're at it, the "illegal lane change" , which I've only seen in Texas. Had that one pulled on me three times in the 30 + years I've lived here. No tickets but really annoying. JMHO.
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:57 pm
by TreyHouston
...how do you get the guns our if the gangsters hands if not S&F? The cops know who they are and everyday the ones doing the crime have more and more rights?
Re: Poll: Stop and Frisk
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:34 pm
by Dave2
TreyHouston wrote:...how do you get the guns our if the gangsters hands if not S&F? The cops know who they are and everyday the ones doing the crime have more and more rights?
No, they have the same rights (4th amendment) as everyone else.