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Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:14 pm
by Jusme
I look at it the same way I look at an automobile "accident".
The discharge of the firearm, was an "accident" in that the person handling the gun, did not "intend" for the firing pin to strike a live round and send projectile(s) from the barrel. The "accident" was caused by "negligence". The gun should have been made safe, by not only cycling, but by visually inspecting the chamber to ensure it was unloaded. So someone was negligent, and in my opinion, it was the last person handling it when it discharged, whether it was the vendor, or a customer.
Automobile "accidents" are in the same category. They are almost always caused by "negligence" on one or more of the parties involved, or even by a third party mechanic/installer/manufacturer.
Accident, simply means an unintentional action. Negligence implies responsibility, no matter the intent. JMHO
Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:15 pm
by mojo84
E.Marquez wrote:
Accident.. A part was created using established procedures and materials..a part that has been used successfully previously. The part and the machine were used in established known safe and prudent manner in accordance with all rules and laws.
Had I intentionally used a faulty part.
Had I intentionally used a part know to be substandard for the task
Had I intentionally created a part I knew to be substandard and used it anyway...
Had I intentionally used the motorcycle in an unsafe, imprudent manner, that was proximate cause for the part failure...
Id call that negligence..
Said another way.. I picked up a firearm believed to be in good condition, recently worked on, but passed dry fire tests, loaded it with the muzzle pointed a safe direction, aimed at the target, and touched the trigger but did not depress it, and the gun failed and fired unintentionally.
That would be an AD much like putting on all your gear, pre ride checking a motorcycle, riding it in a safe and legal manner and having a part believed to be in good working order fail..is an accident...not negligence.
What part failed? Was it designed to fail? Was there a manufacturer's defect? Was it worn out or over stressed? Was it properly maintained? Is it typical for this part to perform I such a manner?
Something led to and causes this "accident". It was either operator error or a malfunction due to human involvement somewhere along the line. Did that human involvement involve some amount of negligence?
In the case of the subject of this thread, I think negligence on the part of the seller and whoever discharged the weapon were negligent and that led to an accidental discharge.
Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:17 pm
by mojo84
Jusme wrote:I look at it the same way I look at an automobile "accident".
The discharge of the firearm, was an "accident" in that the person handling the gun, did not "intend" for the firing pin to strike a live round and send projectile(s) from the barrel. The "accident" was caused by "negligence". The gun should have been made safe, by not only cycling, but by visually inspecting the chamber to ensure it was unloaded. So someone was negligent, and in my opinion, it was the last person handling it when it discharged, whether it was the vendor, or a customer.
Automobile "accidents" are in the same category. They are almost always caused by "negligence" on one or more of the parties involved, or even by a third party mechanic/installer/manufacturer.
Accident, simply means an unintentional action. Negligence implies responsibility, no matter the intent. JMHO
Exactly! I agree completely.
That's why I don't see the need to always correct people when they use the term "accident" even when negligence led to or causes the accident.
One is the event and one is the cause.
Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:23 pm
by ScottDLS
The other day I had an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE when my HI-CAP CLIP caused my gun to discharge. Then I got in a car NEGLIGENT.....
Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:41 pm
by Soccerdad1995
mojo84 wrote:WTR wrote:Well, it may have been an accident caused by negligence. By the way, I like your choice of weapons.
That's my point.
Thanks. Let me know if you ever want to borrow some clips.
I could use a few. My kids keep opening bags of potato chips and letting them get stale. Do you have any of the extra long clips?
Re: Shooting at Wichita Falls Gun Show
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:42 pm
by mojo84
Soccerdad1995 wrote:mojo84 wrote:WTR wrote:Well, it may have been an accident caused by negligence. By the way, I like your choice of weapons.
That's my point.
Thanks. Let me know if you ever want to borrow some clips.
I could use a few. My kids keep opening bags of potato chips and letting them get stale. Do you have any of the extra long clips?
Hey, I got those also.